no one on - clean hit

[HankC]

in nfhs 2-ump mechanics , u1 watches the runner round 1st and moves inside the diamond for a possible play at 2nd .

in 3-ump , u1 watches the tag and then rotates home , pu moves toward 3rd and u3 moves to 2nd - why such a cacophony of motion  ? do we need our legs stretched ?

it makes more sense to have u1 follow the runner to 2nd and pu and u3 stay put .

[ArchAngel72]

I agree... but .. that's not what I was told to do..  what makes sense to me that is. 

 

 

[noumpere]

42 minutes ago, HankC said:

in nfhs 2-ump mechanics , u1 watches the runner round 1st and moves inside the diamond for a possible play at 2nd .

in 3-ump , u1 watches the tag and then rotates home , pu moves toward 3rd and u3 moves to 2nd - why such a cacophony of motion  ? do we need our legs stretched ?

it makes more sense to have u1 follow the runner to 2nd and pu and u3 stay put .

Because it could turn into a rundown between 1b-2b or 2b-3b and this way you'll have the ends already covered.  And, if it turns out to be just a single, then U3 is already where he needs to be for the next play.

 

Somewhere along the line, they had some rotation differences based on whether the hit was judged to be a single or a clean double -- the problems arose when one umpire judged it to be one thing and the other umpire judged it to be the other.

[UMP45]

52 minutes ago, HankC said:

in nfhs 2-ump mechanics , u1 watches the runner round 1st and moves inside the diamond for a possible play at 2nd .

in 3-ump , u1 watches the tag and then rotates home , pu moves toward 3rd and u3 moves to 2nd - why such a cacophony of motion  ? do we need our legs stretched ?

it makes more sense to have u1 follow the runner to 2nd and pu and u3 stay put .

You don't rotate home unless the BR commits to third after touching 2nd. Read the play.

[Velho]

I'm far from the most experienced but seems to me it's playing the percentages. MLB 2022, 75% on non HR hits were singles, 23% doubles and 2% triples.

U1 staying on 1B ensures complete focus on touch, backpick, or backend of rundown between 2B-1B.

U3 coming in has BR in front of them the whole way and can give full focus on 2B.

PU rolls up for focus on 3B and U1, having nothing to do once BR goes to 2B, has plenty of time to roll home if needed.

I wouldn't use 2 ump system as the baseline. It's compromised from the start and making the best with limited resources. 

[Kevin_K]

8 hours ago, HankC said:

in 3-ump , u1 watches the tag and then rotates home , pu moves toward 3rd and u3 moves to 2nd - why such a cacophony of motion  ? do we need our legs stretched ?

it makes more sense to have u1 follow the runner to 2nd and pu and u3 stay put .

The logic is that it is best to have an umpire at the base a runner is heading to rather than making a call from behind the play.

PU rotates to 3B when BR commits to 2B. If the runner then commits to 3B, U1 heads to HP. By waiting to rotate the runner will always have an umpire ahead of him and behind him, so if the runner returns to 1B, U1 will be waiting for a play coming toward 1B while U3 has any play going toward 2B. It would be similar at all the bases.

It also looks cool when a call at 1B or 3b is made from outside the base with the umpire in the wedge ready to make the call.

https://youtu.be/aVtDSpP8i20

 

[JSam21]

Keeping runners bracketed by umpires... that is why it is done that way. As said before in this thread, U1 isn't rotating until BR/R1 commits to 3rd. 

[JHumbert15]

Yep, box them in. That’s a nice advantage of 3-man.

 

On 3/7/2023 at 12:54 PM, noumpere said:

Somewhere along the line, they had some rotation differences based on whether the hit was judged to be a single or a clean double -- the problems arose when one umpire judged it to be one thing and the other umpire judged it to be the other.

It’s interesting you mention this because I recall an MiLB game last year (AA) where there was nobody on, and a ball down the 3B line. U3 stayed and U1 came in and took BR to second, so he was in deep B and U3 was ready in D. I thought it was really smart since you don’t have to worry about switching off after the play, but when I learned 3-man I was told U3 always cuts in, and that’s what I do. Could that have been an older crew chief wanting this mechanic? I don’t know anything about MiLB 3-man so maybe that could be somewhat standardized, I don’t know. At least at the NCAA level as far as I know I’ve never seen that or been taught it.

[noumpere]

53 minutes ago, JHumbert15 said:

Yep, box them in. That’s a nice advantage of 3-man.

 

It’s interesting you mention this because I recall an MiLB game last year (AA) where there was nobody on, and a ball down the 3B line. U3 stayed and U1 came in and took BR to second, so he was in deep B and U3 was ready in D. I thought it was really smart since you don’t have to worry about switching off after the play, but when I learned 3-man I was told U3 always cuts in, and that’s what I do. Could that have been an older crew chief wanting this mechanic? I don’t know anything about MiLB 3-man so maybe that could be somewhat standardized, I don’t know. At least at the NCAA level as far as I know I’ve never seen that or been taught it.

IF the ball was down the line, U3 may have stayed because it was "trouble" -- depending on the specific ground rules, he may have needed to rule on whether the ball went OOP

[JHumbert15]

5 minutes ago, noumpere said:

IF the ball was down the line, U3 may have stayed because it was "trouble" -- depending on the specific ground rules, he may have needed to rule on whether the ball went OOP

Could have been. I don’t remember that well but I don’t think it was a trouble ball or I’d have assumed that was why he stayed. Then again, I can’t remember it super well so you may be right. I thought the left fielder got it clean. Fair point either way.

[JSam21]

1 hour ago, JHumbert15 said:

Could have been. I don’t remember that well but I don’t think it was a trouble ball or I’d have assumed that was why he stayed. Then again, I can’t remember it super well so you may be right. I thought the left fielder got it clean. Fair point either way.

Which park?

[JHumbert15]

11 minutes ago, JSam21 said:

Which park?

Canal. Akron Rubber Ducks. I remember 2 of the 3 on the crew because we went to watch/meet them as one of them was mentored by the same guy that is currently mine, but of course the one I didn’t know was U3 and I didn’t get a chance to ask them about it.

[noumpere]

2 hours ago, JHumbert15 said:

Could have been. I don’t remember that well but I don’t think it was a trouble ball or I’d have assumed that was why he stayed. Then again, I can’t remember it super well so you may be right. I thought the left fielder got it clean. Fair point either way.

If U3 turned around to watch the ball, he was out -- and U1 is then responsible for the runner to second.

[JSam21]

11 hours ago, JHumbert15 said:

Canal. Akron Rubber Ducks. I remember 2 of the 3 on the crew because we went to watch/meet them as one of them was mentored by the same guy that is currently mine, but of course the one I didn’t know was U3 and I didn’t get a chance to ask them about it.

Looks like there is a low wall and an odd little cut out in the corner in left field... that is probably why they stayed with it.