Strike

[Guest guest]

Pitch slips out of pitchers hand on delivery.  Ball goes about ten feet outside the other batters box.  Batters jokingly swings the bat.  Does this meet the qualifications for swinging at a pitch? Or does the swing require an effort to actually try to hit the ball? Does just swinging equal a strike?

[Senor Azul]

To our guest, the exact same scenario actually happened in a Minor League game between the Hartford Yard Goats and the Binghamton Rumble Ponies played in May 2017. Yard Goats batter Josh Fuentes jokingly swung at a pitch that had slipped out of the pitcher’s hand but the umpire called a strike on the swing and since it was a third strike the batter was declared out by the plate umpire. Here’s why—

Even though the pitch slipped out of the pitcher’s hand the ball did cross a foul line thus making it a legal delivery to the batter.

From the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (p. 146) and then the actual rule:

A slip (as opposed to a pitch or throw) is a released baseball, intended to be a pitch or throw, but that lacks both aim and momentum. Any intended pitch that slips out of a pitcher’s hand and crosses (or, if it is touched, would have crossed) a foul line is a ball. An intended pitch that slips and does not cross a foul line is a balk if there is a runner, and no pitch if there is not a runner. (6.02b Comment) An intended pickoff throw (in-contact) to first or third base that slips is a balk if it does not reach the foul line or a fielder within reach of a tag attempt at the base. However, it is not a balk if a pitcher drops the ball or allows it to slip after a step to second base, which does not require a throw.

2021 OBR Rule 6.02(b) Comment: A ball which slips out of a pitcher’s hand and crosses the foul line shall be called a ball; otherwise it will be called no pitch. This would be a balk with men on base.

[Jimurray]

5 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

To our guest, the exact same scenario actually happened in a Minor League game between the Hartford Yard Goats and the Binghamton Rumble Ponies played in May 2017. Yard Goats batter Josh Fuentes jokingly swung at a pitch that had slipped out of the pitcher’s hand but the umpire called a strike on the swing and since it was a third strike the batter was declared out by the plate umpire. Here’s why—

Even though the pitch slipped out of the pitcher’s hand the ball did cross a foul line thus making it a legal delivery to the batter.

From the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (p. 146) and then the actual rule:

A slip (as opposed to a pitch or throw) is a released baseball, intended to be a pitch or throw, but that lacks both aim and momentum. Any intended pitch that slips out of a pitcher’s hand and crosses (or, if it is touched, would have crossed) a foul line is a ball. An intended pitch that slips and does not cross a foul line is a balk if there is a runner, and no pitch if there is not a runner. (6.02b Comment) An intended pickoff throw (in-contact) to first or third base that slips is a balk if it does not reach the foul line or a fielder within reach of a tag attempt at the base. However, it is not a balk if a pitcher drops the ball or allows it to slip after a step to second base, which does not require a throw.

2021 OBR Rule 6.02(b) Comment: A ball which slips out of a pitcher’s hand and crosses the foul line shall be called a ball; otherwise it will be called no pitch. This would be a balk with men on base.

Texas TASO test had an interesting wrinkle that tripped me up on a dropped pitch with no one on. One correct answer was the pitch will be a ball if it crosses the foul line. The other correct answer which combination I did not choose was if it didn't cross the foul line it was a no pitch and a dead ball. While most of us would kill the ball to call a no pitch I didn't know of any rule in any code that makes that "no pitch" dead, not that it would matter. But 6-1-4 must make it dead even though it is not a "legal pitch".

 

6-1-ART. 4 ... Each legal pitch shall be declared by the umpire as a strike, ball, fair or foul hit or a dead ball. A pitch dropped during delivery and which crosses a foul line shall be called a ball. Otherwise, it will be called no pitch. A pitch dropped during delivery with at least one runner on base would be a balk if it does not cross a foul line.

 

[Tog Gee]

If a batter playfully or lazily swings the bat on a very wild pitch,  was the ball "struck at"?

FED screenshot attached.

[Guest Guest]

The question I guess is is there leeway on interpretation by the umpire as to whether the pitch was attempted to be struck.  

 

I was asking because I did see the play referenced above.  

I can see calling a strike on it I guess, but if it were me, I probably wouldn't because I didn't feel it was actually struck at in an actual attempt.  Kind of like a bunt not having to be pulled back if there is no actual attempt to strike the ball.  

Could that have been a possible interpretation of not calling a strike?

[Richvee]

2 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

The question I guess is is there leeway on interpretation by the umpire as to whether the pitch was attempted to be struck.  

 

I was asking because I did see the play referenced above.  

I can see calling a strike on it I guess, but if it were me, I probably wouldn't because I didn't feel it was actually struck at in an actual attempt.  Kind of like a bunt not having to be pulled back if there is no actual attempt to strike the ball.  

Could that have been a possible interpretation of not calling a strike?

If I recall, there is a thread here somewhere with some lively discussion about this call. Opinions varied. FWIW I’m in the” no swing camp”. I agree with you, it’s not an attempt to hit the baseball.
OTOH, one can make the argument on a steal attempt, and a poor pitch, a batter may swing just to protect the runner, with obviously no intention of striking the ball, and there’s  no way you’re not calling a strike in that situation. 

[Lou B]

OK, similar scenario.

No one on, 2-2 count, left handed batter, pitch slips out of pitchers hand and rolls very quickly well wide of the right handed batter batter's box heading towards the backstop.   Batter swings and immediately takes off for first base and makes it there.

You're call?

[Rich Ives]

42 minutes ago, Lou B said:

OK, similar scenario.

No one on, 2-2 count, left handed batter, pitch slips out of pitchers hand and rolls very quickly well wide of the right handed batter batter's box heading towards the backstop.   Batter swings and immediately takes off for first base and makes it there.

Your call?

Safe.  Not a new idea.

[Senor Azul]

There is precious little written on this subject. I did, however, find the following play in a copy of Referee magazine dated November 2014 and following that something from the College Study Guide—

Very Late Swing

Play: R1 is attempting to steal second. The pitch to B3 is in the dirt, so B3 does not swing immediately. However, once the ball is past him, B3 waves the bat at the ball. Ruling: lf the ball is clearly past, the batter cannot be charged with a strike. However, he can be charged with interference if he hinders F2's attempt to throw the ball (NFHS 7-3-5c; NCAA 7-11f; pro 6.03a-3).

But there is a huge caveat that goes along with this play from Referee. We have video posted on this site of two plays from the MLB that pretty much match the OP—the case of Pablo Sandoval in 2014 and one with Andrew Benintendi from 2018. In both instances the batter swung at the pitch after it was caught by the catcher and then both times the umpire signaled strike.

 ***

George Demetriou wrote in the 2019-2020 College Baseball Rules Study Guide (p. 158) “there is no clear definition of when a pitch ends that can be applied in all situations…Although unwritten, a batter loses the right to swing at the pitch when it first passes the plate. Thus a pitch that touches the bat on the follow through or after deflecting off the catcher or umpire is not a batted ball. Likewise, if the batter is hit by such a deflected ball, it is not considered hit by pitch.”