New uncaught 3rd strike mechanic?

[SeeingEyeDog]

A lot of guys in my association have either recently attended camps or are attending camp this weekend...

I was on the plate and had an uncaught third strike and used the right arm making a safe signal and voiced, "No catch! No catch!". Between innings my partner said we are transitioning to a mechanic where we simply point to 1B...with no verbalization.

When I asked him how the batter knows we have an uncaught third strike since we are behind him, he said, "If it's a called third strike uncaught, you will call strike three and then point. If he swings and misses, you will merely point. In either case, if he is unsure he can look at you. His team will tell him to run. Verbalizing no catch gives the runner an advantage."

My question (internally monologuing), "How is it an advantage if both the catcher and the batter hear me say no catch?"

Ok, my U-E brothers...your turn...what do you have here? Anybody using this mechanic? Thoughts?

~Dawg

[HokieUmp]

I'll go .... I'm still verbalizing "no catch!" while giving a full-on safe signal.

I mean, F2 knows there's no catch, since he F*#Ked it up to start with.  And the batter should know he's got a chance.  So I'm not sure I buy that logic.

Don't get me wrong - if I get told otherwise by an assigner and/or evaluator, it's not a hill I'm willing to die on.  But for now, that's what I do, and prefer.

[Vegas_Ump]

IMO yelling out "no catch" is like being the third offensive coach!  That's not your job!  

The batter, offensive team, and the offensive coaches need to be paying attention and need to know the rule.  (And as they get older in the younger groups they get to a point where the rule applies and they have a little trouble sometimes.  For instance, with less than two outs and 1B is occupied, they see an U3K and they go nuts and tell the batter to run!  And R1 just put himself in jeopardy--if the defense knows the rules too!)

I had this one in a LLWS Regional tourney:  R1, R2, 2 outs.  2-2 count.  Batter checks swing as F2 drops the ball!  I go to U1 (left hand)--"Did he go?" Response:  "Yes he went!"  I point towards first (right hand), and the alert F2 picks up the ball and tags the batter!  "Batter is out!"  Inning over.  Our debrief was something like, "You guys looked like you had been practicing that for 6 months!"  Nothing but application of the rules and a defense that was right on the point!

So I guess I don't like verbalizing an U3K--just signal!  If the rule applies, they are supposed to know!

Mike

Las Vegas

[Richvee]

I’m going to sit on the fence here and say ”sometimes”. 

If the batter swings at a pitch in the dirt, or one that sails past the catcher,  I’m not saying anything. Everyone knows we have an uncaught 3rd strike. 
 

If we have a low pitch, where the catcher catches it, or traps it, or it bounces into the glove, I’m  verbally calling “ That’s down” or “He caught it”

 Sometimes on these plays even the catcher’s not sure if he caught it cleanly, so I don’t see how calling out “it’s down” can be considered  favoring one over the other. 

 

[Thunderheads]

11 hours ago, Richvee said:

Sometimes on these plays even the catcher’s not sure if he caught it cleanly, so I don’t see how calling out “it’s down” can be considered  favoring one over the other. 

 

I must agree with this also ....... verbalizing isn't favoring anyone

plus, ...it's been mentioned here about 'yelling' no-catch', ... no one is yelling anything, it's typically said just so the catcher and batter can hear it ...

[Catch18]

Verbalizing no catch gives the runner an advantage

I guess I’ll not be verbalizing any calls anymore.

(Seeing Eye, I know this wasn’t from you, and you were quoting a colleague.)

[Richvee]

2 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

. no one is yelling anything, it's typically said just so the catcher and batter can hear

Yes! 

[Kevin_K]

If this is the one thing that any of one of us need to be concerned with I would say that our games will run smoothly. 

I'm not convinced that "No catch" on a questionable play by F2 will offer anyone any real advantage in the vast majority of situations. In the long run, the communication and relationship with F2 matters to me far more, so I will let him know how I saw the play.

My .02. YMMV.

[lawump]

Verbalizing "no catch" on a play in which there is doubt as to whether or not the pitched ball is caught does not give either team an advantage.  It tells the runner he has the right to try and advance, but it also tells the defense that they have to make a play (tag of the runner or tag of first base) in order to get an "out". 

We only have to go back to 2005 to see the sh!tshow that can arise when an umpire fails to vocalize "no catch".  If Eddings had said "no catch" on this play, the Angels may have disagreed with his call, but they would have thrown the B/R out at first by 70-feet.  And, if F2 made a throwing error and threw the ball to the right field corner...then that's on them because an F2 who is a shaving-aged player should be able to make a "true" thrown 90-feet to an F3.

 

[GreyhoundAggie]

On the AJ play, i think the additional confusion is Eddings signalled out after pointing the right arm out. 

I never signal out until I have an out.

[Velho]

2 hours ago, GreyhoundAggie said:

I never signal out until I have an out.

☝️This is why I changed my strike mechanic away from "the hammer" that LL teaches.