Runner going to first hit by ball

[Guest Don]

The runner was running to first base on a dropped third strike and the catcher hit the runner in the bask of the head/helmet – the outfield umpire called Safe but the home plate umpire over ruled and called him out.   The reason given was interference. The runner never left the base path. And the first basemen never caught the ball.  What is the rule on this?

[Lou B]

Had the runner reached the running lane and if so was he in it?

[ErichKeane]

That sounds exactly like Runners-lane interference, right down to the mechanic of the base-ump calling safe, followed by the plate-ump calling out (in 2 man). 

 

Both:

and

 

explain it well.

 

[ErichKeane]

Note I just re-watched the 1st video, and some of the advise isn't particularly useful, but it explains the rule for the most part.  In NFHS ball, the 'reasonably catchable' test for the ball isn't there so his advice is incorrect.

[Velho]

13 minutes ago, ErichKeane said:

In NFHS ball, the 'reasonably catchable' test for the ball isn't there so his advice is incorrect.

The need for 'reasonably catchable' in NFHS has been debated on the site.

I'm not one to say if it is or isn't (don't do high school) but this 2010 NFHS Interpretation doesn't have a catchable throw test:

http://www.rgvbb.com/2010_NFHS_BB_Rules_Interpretations.pdf

SITUATION 7: B1 lays down a bunt that is fielded by F2 in fair territory a few feet in front of home plate. As B1 is 60 feet from home base, he is running outside the running lane with one foot completely in fair ground and not touching the lines of the running lane. F2 fields the ball and (a) attempts to throw to first but throws high into right field as he tries not to hit B1, or (b) does not attempt a throw.

      

RULING: B1 is required to be in the running lane the last 45 feet to first base when the ball is fielded and thrown from an area behind him. In (a), this is interference and B1 is out and the ball is declared dead. In (b), since there was no throw, there is no interference. F2 is not required to hit B1 to demonstrate that B1 is out of the running lane, but a throw must be made for the interference to be declared. (8-4-1g)

[ErichKeane]

1 minute ago, Velho said:

The need for 'reasonably catchable' in NFHS has been debated on the site.

I'm not one to say if it is or isn't (don't do high school) but this 2010 NFHS Interpretation doesn't have a catchable throw test:

http://www.rgvbb.com/2010_NFHS_BB_Rules_Interpretations.pdf

SITUATION 7: B1 lays down a bunt that is fielded by F2 in fair territory a few feet in front of home plate. As B1 is 60 feet from home base, he is running outside the running lane with one foot completely in fair ground and not touching the lines of the running lane. F2 fields the ball and (a) attempts to throw to first but throws high into right field as he tries not to hit B1, or (b) does not attempt a throw.

      

RULING: B1 is required to be in the running lane the last 45 feet to first base when the ball is fielded and thrown from an area behind him. In (a), this is interference and B1 is out and the ball is declared dead. In (b), since there was no throw, there is no interference. F2 is not required to hit B1 to demonstrate that B1 is out of the running lane, but a throw must be made for the interference to be declared. (8-4-1g)

Ah, I thought it was settled law that video IIRC does say there is no catchable test, and I thought I saw in the latest case book the same thing, but I'll have to go back and check.

[Guest Yes]

Yes he never left the baseline, I believe he was in the runners lane he was almost to first base when the ball hit his helmet

 

[noumpere]

12 hours ago, ErichKeane said:

Note I just re-watched the 1st video, and some of the advise isn't particularly useful, but it explains the rule for the most part.  In NFHS ball, the 'reasonably catchable' test for the ball isn't there so his advice is incorrect.

Didn't watch the video, but in FED:

1) If BR is in a line (more-or-less) between F2 and F3, then F2 does not need to make a quality throw.  BR is out for RLI since his illegal position interfered with F2's ability to make a throw.

2) If BR is not in a line (more-or-less) between F2 and F3 (e.g., F2 is in fair territory and BR is in foul territory, or vice-versa), then F2 needs to make a quality throw.  BR's position does not interfere with F2's ability to make a throw

[maven]

12 hours ago, Guest Yes said:

Yes he never left the baseline, I believe he was in the runners lane he was almost to first base when the ball hit his helmet

 

1. The umpire might have had a different judgment about the BR being in the running lane.
2. If the BR is out of the lane for most of it, then moves back in to reach 1B, and only at that point hinders the fielder taking the throw, it's still RLI. He doesn't get credit for being in the lane at the moment of impact if he's out for most of the play, esp. at the time the ball is thrown.

[beerguy55]

On 6/21/2022 at 10:37 PM, Guest Yes said:

Yes he never left the baseline, I believe he was in the runners lane he was almost to first base when the ball hit his helmet

 

 

He's required to be between the two parallel white lines that run the final 45 feet to first base - that's the runner's lane.   If he's literally running along the baseline there's a good chance that his left foot is outside the runner's lane for at least part of his advance.

[Vegas_Ump]

A lot of coaches teach catchers to "clock" any runner going up the lane on stuff like a U3K or a bunt right in front of the plate.

But if the BR is compliant with the running lane requirements, no matter what happens, he cannot be called out for RLI.

Also, the Plate Ump has the gutter from home to first on such a play.  The field ump may be ruling on the timing of the throw vs the runner at first base--if it's close, such a call might be required.  But if there is RLI, PU is going to sound off "Time!"  Otherwise, you play on--even if the ball caroms off the BR's helmet.

Different story if the BR is out of the lane and F2's throw could have retired the BR at first ("quality throw" interpretation).

I might add, at all levels, I have rarely seen a BR run in the lane!  [Play from the plate area.]

Mike

Las Vegas