My first ejection!

[umpstu]

24 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

Wait! Are you leaving, too?

 

24 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

Wait! Are you leaving, too?

Am currently on vacation in the Ozarks and looking at a few places.  Popped positive for covid so isolating in the town of Salem, Mo. That sucks as there aren't a lot of restaurants to choose from with to go orders.  Thank god my brother has a farm here. Not leaving CBUA anytime soon.

[JonnyCat]

8 hours ago, umpstu said:

 

Am currently on vacation in the Ozarks and looking at a few places.  Popped positive for covid so isolating in the town of Salem, Mo. That sucks as there aren't a lot of restaurants to choose from with to go orders.  Thank god my brother has a farm here. Not leaving CBUA anytime soon.

I have a brother and his family that moved to Springfield, MO in 1995/96. They live in Rodgersville now, just a few miles away from Springfield.

We've been back to visit a few times, nice area.

Hope you're feeling better soon. When do you think you might move out of CA?

[Vegas_Ump]

On 6/19/2022 at 8:41 AM, ErichKeane said:

"Call the game fair"

 

 

 

 

Using the term, "One more word......" is bad technique.  What if he says, "OK?"

Ok, any adult that uses the term "Call the game fair" or "Call them the same for both sides!" is an automatic ejection for me.  He is challenging the integrity of the umpire crew.  I realize that maybe you are relatively new at youth ball, but you should not tolerate anyone challenging your integrity.  

Actually, it sounds like you waited too long to toss this bozo.

Mike

Las Vegas

[ErichKeane]

29 minutes ago, Vegas_Ump said:

Using the term, "One more word......" is bad technique.  What if he says, "OK?"

Ok, any adult that uses the term "Call the game fair" or "Call them the same for both sides!" is an automatic ejection for me.  He is challenging the integrity of the umpire crew.  I realize that maybe you are relatively new at youth ball, but you should not tolerate anyone challenging your integrity.  

Actually, it sounds like you waited too long to toss this bozo.

Mike

Las Vegas

I'm getting that from you all on that phrase

The intent is "I don't want to hear one more word [arguing balls/strikes]", which I hoped was obvious at the time, but I hear you all.  I PERHAPS said (though, long enough ago...) "about it" after the 'one more word', but I obviously don't know. 

You all are also definitely right that I've now had significantly more (a dozen to zero!), "I wish I had ejected" than "I'm sad I ejected", so I have to work on that.

 

[lawump]

I know this has been stated above, but as someone who used to assign umpires for weekend tournament:  when the coach started giving you pushback on the start time if you are, in fact, following policy (to start early) get the UIC (if they have one) or the tournament director.  Let them handle it.

By the way, I easily believe that the policy you stated (start games early) is actually the policy.  It has been a policy for numerous travel ball organizations in my area.  

[BLarson]

When a game ends really early (like 30-40+ minutes) and 1 or both teams are playing again either in a double header or a different team comes in I ask them how long they need before the next game.   They always say 10-15 minutes, but that never happens as all the kids/parents  fee their kids or get food from the concession stand which may not be close and there's usually a line.

It's always double the time...I just try to pick a plate meeting time that starts early but still gives all teams time.

I find it more aggravating when a game goes way long and they want to mess around before starting the next game.

[ErichKeane]

As an interesting followup-- I did a full tourney in the near-100 degree weather this weekend for the same group.  Thanks to games running long (2hr no-new-inning mixed with 2:15 game spacing, plus a couple of games hitting end-of-6th (of 7) right at ~1:55, we were running behind.  My partner and I were doing minimum 15-20 mins between games to cool down, reapply sunscreen/etc. 

Ended up getting hassled a few times my tourney staff about getting the games moving and 'started on time'.  Mixed with the flak they gave my partner for wearing shorts in his game in the field (again, 100 degrees at game time at the end of a LONG weekend), I ran out of sympathy for their "lets get games going as fast as possible" bit.

 

IN OTHER news, I ended up getting an ejection this weekend, and my partner got an even more exciting one.  What was nice was actually working with a more experienced partner this time, so I got to have backup with how to handle these things.

 

Mine was pretty minor (13U)... bottom 6th home team up by a few, BR hits a grounder to 3B, and I'm on the bases.  I hit him with 'out' in a bang-bang play, and he comes off of 1st, tears his helmet off and says loud-but-not-yelling, "The F*#K is that!".  I sent him off right away.  Coach tried to plead his case that it wasn't about the call, it was about his hitting, but I explained that at 13U the language is inappropriate, full-stop.  I explained it wasn't worth doing a game+1 ejection on, so he could play the rest of the tourney if he behaved, and we were done with it.  BECAUSE of this, his team had to play with 8 in the Top 7th, which went 1-2-3, so no harm at least.

 

My partner's on the other hand... was rough.  Championship game (again 13U), and I'm on plate.  Partner on bases gets a few calls in a row that go against the VT, who we had seen 2x already that morning with no problems (though, they won them handily).  He is of course getting crap about it from the fans, which we handled with ignore/acknowledge (worst fan was given a look and a head shake).  Then, bottom 6, with R2 and R3, batter hits a fly ball near the LF line.  I get on the line for Fair foul, and the catch, best I can.  I call the out, then check R2 for tag (which I see as fine), then look at R3 who is barrelling down the line.  During the fly, I THOUGHT I saw him move before the catch, but of course don't have distance so I don't have a good eye on it anyway (so I can't be sure one way or the other).

Runners both tag and move up.  VT appeals to 3rd (OBR rules, so live-ball appeal..., done correctly).  Partner calls 'safe', and that should be the end of it.  Coach starts shouting at him that he has to ask his partner for help, so partner replies, "no, it was my call, I have this, you've had your appeal".  Coach then starts yelling at his batter to take the rubber, step off, and throw to 3rd, partner again yells, "You've done your appeal, it was done correctly, and I've given my judgement, do not appeal again".  Coach continues, and gets F1 to do the step on, step off, throw to 3rd business.  Partner again rings safe.

Coach AGAIN yells he needs to ask his partner (me), partner AGAIN yells back, "No, I don't, it was my call, I have it.  We're done discussing."  Coach starts to walk out onto the field, and partner tells him to stop a few times (again, live ball through all of this!), and eventually ejects once he gets a few steps over the line.  I walk over to get in between, but the coach takes his lumps after a quick "come on!", and walks off the field.  I watch him and make eye contact to make sure he leaves the field, during which a parent ("Straw Hat" because he was wearing a plain white tee and a fairly sizable straw hat) continues loudly yelling and arguing (as he had been through this whole interaction, and on previous calls), so I go to the fence and loudly state, "Straw Hat, we've already judged on this one, the discussion is over.", which seemingly is enough to make him sit down and quiet down.

HT goes on to score a quite few more runs that 1/2 inning, making it a 15-5 game at that point.  VT goes 1-2-3 (or so?) in the top of the 7th, and I figure we are done.

As I'm getting my water/cooler from behind the plate, Straw Hat comes up to the fence to ask a few questions, which he does so reasonably non-confrontationally, so I answer.  "Yes, it was his call.  No, it isn't home plate's call, it is the opposite of whoever has the fly ball.  Yes, he COULD have asked me if he thought I saw something he didn't, but he was in perfect position to make the call, and saw it better than me."

I grab my partner, and we start walking to the umpire-tend, and Straw Hat comes over and starts yelling at my partner why he didn't ask for help, why it was his call, etc, and my partner engages for a few questions, during which I take position right in front of Straw Hat, chest-to-chest, to start walking him away from my partner.  Straw Hat yells "you know you F*#Ked that up!", partner goes, "I don't have to take this SH*# from you!" and starts to walk away.  I'm trying to calm down Straw Hat and tell him to leave, and that its over, and he is yelling around me (though my partner is responding at times, as he is walking away...).  At one point, Straw Hat says to me, "hey man, I don't have a problem with you, just him!", so I respond, "We're a team out here, if you have a problem with him, you have a problem with me too!". 

Straw Hat keeps yelling, and finally response to my partner's "I don't have to put up with your SH*# today, so shut up and go away!", with a, "Well how about I just find you out in the parking lot!".  I then yell to the side (remember, I'm chest-to-chest with this dude, still trying to calmly talk him down!) "You, please call the police, he just threatened a sports official!".  Straw Hat sputters something like, "thats not what I meant", then scurries away. 

We end up having a bit of a debrief with the TD, and I walk my partner to his car to make sure he's cool/has had a chance to vent, and we go our separate ways.  TD apparently chats with ejected coach, a few parents, and Straw Hat o make it clear that it was all completely unacceptable and that their ability to come to the tournament in the future is in question, and that was that.  Straw Hat had some excuses (As well as wondered why it wasn't PUs call like it is in the majors, where TD explained that 2 man and 4 man mechanics are WAY different!), but left right after.

SO, too much excitement for a kids baseball game IMO 😕  Makes me understand why umps don't want to do this anymore.  For me at least so far, the maturity and sportsmanship of the kids has more than offset the lack of either from the coaches and parents.

 

 

 

BONUS story while I'm typing Speaking of appeals.  We had a DIFFERENT call where I was on plate during a different game the day before, VERY similar situation (appeal on fly ball tag at 3B!), where it was my call as PU.  Fly is to CF on the cone, so I take an angle to check the tag up, and have him getting a good jump, but not early.  Coach tells his catcher to call time out, then throw to 3B.  He does, and I grant time, then he throws to 3B.  I stay silent, and the coach asks me what is the call!  I just responded, "there is nothing to call right now, the ball is dead!" he comes over and starts going, "but he left early! You have to make a call! We did an appeal!".  I just said, "Big Book doesn't permit dead ball appeals, and the ball is now dead.".  He then says, "well how do you want me to appeal then!?", and I respond, "as the rule book says, during a live ball.  You called a time out, so you cannot appeal while the ball is dead.".  He grumbles, then gives a "well screw it then!".

After the inning, 1BC comes up to my partner and I and apologies to his coach, and let us know, "[he] knew that idiot was doing it wrong, but he didn't listen to me!".  And asked us if we'd seen it, and we explained he would have been safe anyway, which made him happy.  As a nice surprise, later that game they did ANOTHER appeal play correctly, to which my partner said, "Appeal done correctly!  But he is safe".

 

So ya... exciting day out in the heat!

[Kevin_K]

3 hours ago, ErichKeane said:

My partner's on the other hand... was rough.  Championship game (again 13U), and I'm on plate.  Partner on bases gets a few calls in a row that go against the VT, who we had seen 2x already that morning with no problems (though, they won them handily).  He is of course getting crap about it from the fans, which we handled with ignore/acknowledge (worst fan was given a look and a head shake).  Then, bottom 6, with R2 and R3, batter hits a fly ball near the LF line.  I get on the line for Fair foul, and the catch, best I can.  I call the out, then check R2 for tag (which I see as fine), then look at R3 who is barrelling down the line.  During the fly, I THOUGHT I saw him move before the catch, but of course don't have distance so I don't have a good eye on it anyway (so I can't be sure one way or the other).

Runners both tag and move up.  VT appeals to 3rd (OBR rules, so live-ball appeal..., done correctly).  Partner calls 'safe', and that should be the end of it.  Coach starts shouting at him that he has to ask his partner for help, so partner replies, "no, it was my call, I have this, you've had your appeal".  Coach then starts yelling at his batter to take the rubber, step off, and throw to 3rd, partner again yells, "You've done your appeal, it was done correctly, and I've given my judgement, do not appeal again".  Coach continues, and gets F1 to do the step on, step off, throw to 3rd business.  Partner again rings safe.

Coach AGAIN yells he needs to ask his partner (me), partner AGAIN yells back, "No, I don't, it was my call, I have it.  We're done discussing."  Coach starts to walk out onto the field, and partner tells him to stop a few times (again, live ball through all of this!), and eventually ejects once he gets a few steps over the line.  I walk over to get in between, but the coach takes his lumps after a quick "come on!", and walks off the field.  I watch him and make eye contact to make sure he leaves the field, during which a parent ("Straw Hat" because he was wearing a plain white tee and a fairly sizable straw hat) continues loudly yelling and arguing (as he had been through this whole interaction, and on previous calls), so I go to the fence and loudly state, "Straw Hat, we've already judged on this one, the discussion is over.", which seemingly is enough to make him sit down and quiet down.

 

I'm a little confused.

You had the plate. R2 & R3. Ball is hit down the left field line. You take the fair/foul and the catch/no catch. That makes sense in a two man crew.

Why were you looking at the tag on R2? In the two man system PU is responsible for tag ups at 3B. You should have had the responsibility for the tag on R3, no? When lining up the fair/foul and catch/no catch R3 would have been directly in front of you. Your more experienced partner should have been more than aware that this was your call and not his.

If I was the OHC I would have made a similarly vociferous argument about who should be making that call if everything was as described.

[Jimurray]

5 hours ago, ErichKeane said:

As an interesting followup-- I did a full tourney in the near-100 degree weather this weekend for the same group.  Thanks to games running long (2hr no-new-inning mixed with 2:15 game spacing, plus a couple of games hitting end-of-6th (of 7) right at ~1:55, we were running behind.  My partner and I were doing minimum 15-20 mins between games to cool down, reapply sunscreen/etc. 

Ended up getting hassled a few times my tourney staff about getting the games moving and 'started on time'.  Mixed with the flak they gave my partner for wearing shorts in his game in the field (again, 100 degrees at game time at the end of a LONG weekend), I ran out of sympathy for their "lets get games going as fast as possible" bit.

 

IN OTHER news, I ended up getting an ejection this weekend, and my partner got an even more exciting one.  What was nice was actually working with a more experienced partner this time, so I got to have backup with how to handle these things.

 

Mine was pretty minor (13U)... bottom 6th home team up by a few, BR hits a grounder to 3B, and I'm on the bases.  I hit him with 'out' in a bang-bang play, and he comes off of 1st, tears his helmet off and says loud-but-not-yelling, "The F*#K is that!".  I sent him off right away.  Coach tried to plead his case that it wasn't about the call, it was about his hitting, but I explained that at 13U the language is inappropriate, full-stop.  I explained it wasn't worth doing a game+1 ejection on, so he could play the rest of the tourney if he behaved, and we were done with it.  BECAUSE of this, his team had to play with 8 in the Top 7th, which went 1-2-3, so no harm at least.

 

My partner's on the other hand... was rough.  Championship game (again 13U), and I'm on plate.  Partner on bases gets a few calls in a row that go against the VT, who we had seen 2x already that morning with no problems (though, they won them handily).  He is of course getting crap about it from the fans, which we handled with ignore/acknowledge (worst fan was given a look and a head shake).  Then, bottom 6, with R2 and R3, batter hits a fly ball near the LF line.  I get on the line for Fair foul, and the catch, best I can.  I call the out, then check R2 for tag (which I see as fine), then look at R3 who is barrelling down the line.  During the fly, I THOUGHT I saw him move before the catch, but of course don't have distance so I don't have a good eye on it anyway (so I can't be sure one way or the other).

Runners both tag and move up.  VT appeals to 3rd (OBR rules, so live-ball appeal..., done correctly).  Partner calls 'safe', and that should be the end of it.  Coach starts shouting at him that he has to ask his partner for help, so partner replies, "no, it was my call, I have this, you've had your appeal".  Coach then starts yelling at his batter to take the rubber, step off, and throw to 3rd, partner again yells, "You've done your appeal, it was done correctly, and I've given my judgement, do not appeal again".  Coach continues, and gets F1 to do the step on, step off, throw to 3rd business.  Partner again rings safe.

Coach AGAIN yells he needs to ask his partner (me), partner AGAIN yells back, "No, I don't, it was my call, I have it.  We're done discussing."  Coach starts to walk out onto the field, and partner tells him to stop a few times (again, live ball through all of this!), and eventually ejects once he gets a few steps over the line.  I walk over to get in between, but the coach takes his lumps after a quick "come on!", and walks off the field.  I watch him and make eye contact to make sure he leaves the field, during which a parent ("Straw Hat" because he was wearing a plain white tee and a fairly sizable straw hat) continues loudly yelling and arguing (as he had been through this whole interaction, and on previous calls), so I go to the fence and loudly state, "Straw Hat, we've already judged on this one, the discussion is over.", which seemingly is enough to make him sit down and quiet down.

HT goes on to score a quite few more runs that 1/2 inning, making it a 15-5 game at that point.  VT goes 1-2-3 (or so?) in the top of the 7th, and I figure we are done.

As I'm getting my water/cooler from behind the plate, Straw Hat comes up to the fence to ask a few questions, which he does so reasonably non-confrontationally, so I answer.  "Yes, it was his call.  No, it isn't home plate's call, it is the opposite of whoever has the fly ball.  Yes, he COULD have asked me if he thought I saw something he didn't, but he was in perfect position to make the call, and saw it better than me."

I grab my partner, and we start walking to the umpire-tend, and Straw Hat comes over and starts yelling at my partner why he didn't ask for help, why it was his call, etc, and my partner engages for a few questions, during which I take position right in front of Straw Hat, chest-to-chest, to start walking him away from my partner.  Straw Hat yells "you know you F*#Ked that up!", partner goes, "I don't have to take this SH*# from you!" and starts to walk away.  I'm trying to calm down Straw Hat and tell him to leave, and that its over, and he is yelling around me (though my partner is responding at times, as he is walking away...).  At one point, Straw Hat says to me, "hey man, I don't have a problem with you, just him!", so I respond, "We're a team out here, if you have a problem with him, you have a problem with me too!". 

Straw Hat keeps yelling, and finally response to my partner's "I don't have to put up with your SH*# today, so shut up and go away!", with a, "Well how about I just find you out in the parking lot!".  I then yell to the side (remember, I'm chest-to-chest with this dude, still trying to calmly talk him down!) "You, please call the police, he just threatened a sports official!".  Straw Hat sputters something like, "thats not what I meant", then scurries away. 

We end up having a bit of a debrief with the TD, and I walk my partner to his car to make sure he's cool/has had a chance to vent, and we go our separate ways.  TD apparently chats with ejected coach, a few parents, and Straw Hat o make it clear that it was all completely unacceptable and that their ability to come to the tournament in the future is in question, and that was that.  Straw Hat had some excuses (As well as wondered why it wasn't PUs call like it is in the majors, where TD explained that 2 man and 4 man mechanics are WAY different!), but left right after.

SO, too much excitement for a kids baseball game IMO 😕  Makes me understand why umps don't want to do this anymore.  For me at least so far, the maturity and sportsmanship of the kids has more than offset the lack of either from the coaches and parents.

 

 

 

BONUS story while I'm typing Speaking of appeals.  We had a DIFFERENT call where I was on plate during a different game the day before, VERY similar situation (appeal on fly ball tag at 3B!), where it was my call as PU.  Fly is to CF on the cone, so I take an angle to check the tag up, and have him getting a good jump, but not early.  Coach tells his catcher to call time out, then throw to 3B.  He does, and I grant time, then he throws to 3B.  I stay silent, and the coach asks me what is the call!  I just responded, "there is nothing to call right now, the ball is dead!" he comes over and starts going, "but he left early! You have to make a call! We did an appeal!".  I just said, "Big Book doesn't permit dead ball appeals, and the ball is now dead.".  He then says, "well how do you want me to appeal then!?", and I respond, "as the rule book says, during a live ball.  You called a time out, so you cannot appeal while the ball is dead.".  He grumbles, then gives a "well screw it then!".

After the inning, 1BC comes up to my partner and I and apologies to his coach, and let us know, "[he] knew that idiot was doing it wrong, but he didn't listen to me!".  And asked us if we'd seen it, and we explained he would have been safe anyway, which made him happy.  As a nice surprise, later that game they did ANOTHER appeal play correctly, to which my partner said, "Appeal done correctly!  But he is safe".

 

So ya... exciting day out in the heat!

" I get on the line for Fair foul, and the catch, best I can.  I call the out, then check R2 for tag (which I see as fine), then look at R3 who is barrelling down the line."

What book is that from?

[ErichKeane]

53 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

" I get on the line for Fair foul, and the catch, best I can.  I call the out, then check R2 for tag (which I see as fine), then look at R3 who is barrelling down the line."

What book is that from?

Which book? Not sure what you mean? The ump-class I took around here(just taught by a head ump in an afternoon) said inside base ump gets the cone, plate ump gets the lines. Guy not calling the catch gets lead runner tag, guy calling the catch gets the rest of the tags.

UIC, partner, and SD all said so as well?

[Jimurray]

1 minute ago, ErichKeane said:

Which book? Not sure what you mean? The ump-class I took around here(just taught by a head ump in an afternoon) said inside base ump gets the cone, plate ump gets the lines. Guy not calling the catch gets lead runner tag, guy calling the catch gets the rest of the tags.

UIC, partner, and SD all said so as well?

Most other mechanics have the cone take R2 tag and backup the PU on R3s tag. You, the PU have the catch, f f, and R3’s tag in perfect alignment. All “books” use this mechanic. It appears your outfit was using a self published book by your UIC. Since you all were on the same page the coverage should have been covered but you can see why you looking down the line could better see what R3 was doing. You might ask your UIC where he got this mechanic from. 

[ErichKeane]

10 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Most other mechanics have the cone take R2 tag and backup the PU on R3s tag. You, the PU have the catch, f f, and R3’s tag in perfect alignment. All “books” use this mechanic. It appears your outfit was using a self published book by your UIC. Since you all were on the same page the coverage should have been covered but you can see why you looking down the line could better see what R3 was doing. You might ask your UIC where he got this mechanic from. 

Ah, interesting! I'll make sure this comes up during pregame in my next meeting then to confirm! I'd not known there was a difference in approach here. Unfortunately I'm a bit ad hoc taught here, so I'm learning from partners as I go, best I can. They still haven't recovered from COVID, so new ump training this year was a about a 4 hr training that concentrated mostly on balls :/

The rest is YouTube plus what my partners are willing to teach when I get a more experienced guy than myself (which is unfortunately rare).

[BigBlue4u]

 Glad to hear you didn't say another peep.  Dugout would have sounded like a bird cage and you would have to eject a bunch of people for saying peep peep peep

Actually, I did that once to set up a coach.  I came over near the dugout and told the coach, "If I hear one more "peep" out of this dugout, you are done for the day."  In my mind I thought I would hear it in about 10 steps.  It only took 6.