Consecutive out rule when batting full team in continuous lineup?

[Guest pjk33]

Do all 6 outs in the field for a player have to be consecutive if batting a continuous order for the entire game?  The rule book is unclear for the Jr. League (12-14 year old) division.

[Senor Azul]

The following is from the 2018 Little League RIM—a couple bits of information put together to answer your question. The Instructor Comments to the Regulation IV already mentioned and the approved ruling to rule 4.04 already posted by Mr. ousafe.

INSTRUCTOR COMMENTS

This now defines what constitutes the requirements of mandatory play. Under 3.03, a starter does not have to play a defensive position for six “consecutive” defensive outs because he/she has reentry rights but he/she MUST get six defensive outs sometime during the game. A substitute MUST get six “consecutive” defensive outs before he/she is removed from the game because he/she does not have reentry rights.

4.04 A.R. – For the purpose of continuous batting order, all players listed in the batting order shall be considered starters.

[Mudisfun]

What rule set are you referencing? LL? Are you referencing regular season rules or tournament rules?

Basically, if CBO, the starter can be pulled anytime, but the manager must make sure they receive their mandatory play. The substitute must meet mandatory play of 6 consecutive outs prior to being pulled. Since they are batting CBO, their having 1 at bat is not part of the equation since that is obviously a non-issue.

LL Rule 3.03: A player in the starting line-up who has been removed for a substitute may re-enter the game, in the SAME position in the batting order, provided:

(a) His or her substitute has completed one time at bat; for the purposes of meeting the requirements of Mandatory Play, is when a player assumes the position of batter with no count and one of the following occurs:

* He/she is retired as a batter; or

* He/she is retired as a batter-runner; or

* He/she reaches base and scores; or

* After he/she reaches base, the inning or game ends.

NOTE: For the purposes of satisfying the requirements of Mandatory Play, when appearing offensively for the first time in the game, a player must remain in the game until one of the following occurs:

* He/she is retired as a batter, or

* He/she is retired as a batter-runner; or

* He/she reaches base and scores; or

* After he/she reaches base, the inning or game ends.

 

(b) has played defensively for a minimum of six (6) consecutive outs;

skipping (c) as it is about pitchers

(d) a starter and his/her substitute must not be in the line-up at the same time, except as provided in 3.03 NOTE 3. Once mandatory play is met, a starter and substitute(s) can enter/re-enter for each other as desired, but must re-enter in the SAME position in the batting order,

(e) Defensive substitutions must be made while the team is on defense. Offensive substitutions must be made at the time the offensive player has his/her turn at bat or is on base.

NOTE 1: A substitute may not be removed from the game prior to completion of his/her mandatory play requirements.

[Guest pjK33]

I am referencing LL Junior League division.  And regular season, not tournament

The rub here for me is that technically there are no substitutes as each player is considered a starter if they all bat consecutively.  That's why I ask the question.  Can the player play 3 outs in the field in the 3rd and then 3 in the 6th innings?  I'm not actually substituting according to what I see if we bat everyone consecutively.

The rules that you put in your post all talk about substitution and the bullet points follow the act of substitution and again, we aren't technically substituting.

The newly updated rule (called a "significant update" on the LL website states this:

Regulation IV(i): Mandatory Play: Every rostered player present at the start of a game will participate in each game for a minimum of six (6) defensive outs and bat at least one (1) time. For the purposes of this rule, “six (6) defensive outs” is defined as: A player enters the field in one of the nine defensive positions when his/her team is on defense and occupies a defensive position while six outs are made

The word "consecutive" is missing.  It just states "6 defensive outs"  I'm just trying to figure out if it has to be 6 consecutive outs.

[ousafe]

LL 4.04 AR says that under CBO "all players listed in the batting order shall be considered starters."

As such, I don't think their defensive outs need to be consecutive.

[beerguy55]

Maybe I'm missing something...if CBO you're not removing a player from the "line up", nor the game...just the field, from time to time.

It would be a nightmare making sure everyone plays two consecutive defensive innings all the time in that scenario.

 

 

[Guest pjk33]

That's the way it seemed to me, but wanted to see what everyone else thought.  The removal of the "consecutive" from the rules seemed clear, but...  It is LL and I like to be sure.

[BDad]

Regulation IV applies to all rostered players, not just subs. If not CBO, the starters do not need to play six consecutive defensive outs, only the subs do. That's why "consecutive" is missing from Regulation IV.

Rule 4.04 - The batting order shall be followed throughout the game unless a player is substituted for another. Substitutes must take the place of the replaced player's position in the batting order except as covered by Rule 3.03. A league may adopt a policy of a continuous batting order that will include all players on the team roster present for the game batting in order. If this option is adopted, each player would be required to bat in his/her respective spot in the batting order. However, a player may be entered and/or re-entered defensively in the game anytime provided he/she meets the requirements of mandatory play.

FWIW, all the comments in the 2022 RIM have to do with situations when a player in the batting order cannot continue (injury, etc.) and their batting position comes up. So "sub" seems to mean replacing another player in the batting order. If every player is in the batting order (CBO), then they're all "starters" (Rule 4.04 A.R.). Starters can enter or leave defensively any time as long as they meet the minimum requirement of 6 defensive outs during the game.

At least that's my take.

Edited: I meant 2022 RIM.

[ousafe]

On 5/18/2022 at 12:59 PM, Guest pjk33 said:

but...  It is LL and I like to be sure.

Then you should start with your League UIC, and escalate to your District UIC ... and on up the chain as necessary.  It's their interpretations that matter to you and your team, even if the advice here is pretty sound.