no swing foul tip possible?

[pl8ump1012]

This is a hypothetical; I haven't seen it happen.

We know that if the pitcher throws waaay high and in, behind the batter's head, and the ball hits the bat and falls to the ground, it's an (unfortunate) foul ball.

What if the same pitch nicks the bat (similar to how a pitch nicks the bat on a normal foul tip) and goes directly into the catcher's glove. Is that a foul tip? If there are previously two strikes, is the batter out on strikes despite the pitch being out of the zone and not swinging at the pitch?

[beerguy55]

A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught, and any foul tip that is caught is a strike, and the ball is in play.

 

12 minutes ago, pl8ump1012 said:

What if the same pitch nicks the bat (similar to how a pitch nicks the bat on a normal foul tip) and goes directly into the catcher's glove. Is that a foul tip?

Sounds like a foul tip to me

[Velho]

🦆=🦆 & 🌹=🌹

Yep, that's a foul tip. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good (for the pitcher).

OBR

Definition: A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught, and any foul tip that is caught is a strike, and the ball is in play.

NFHS: 

ART. 2 . . . A foul tip is a batted ball that goes directly to the catcher’s hands and is legally caught by the catcher. It is a strike and the ball is in play.

13 minutes ago, pl8ump1012 said:

We know that if the pitcher throws waaay high and in, behind the batter's head, and the ball hits the bat and falls to the ground, it's an (unfortunate) foul batted ball.

FIFY  It's live and fair / foul remains to be seen

[MadMax]

23 minutes ago, pl8ump1012 said:

We know that if the pitcher throws waaay high and in, behind the batter's head, and the ball hits the bat and falls to the ground, it's an (unfortunate) foul ball.

What if the same pitch nicks the bat

Adjust this slightly, and it will become more recognizable... 

We acknowledge that putting the bat out to bunt does not, in and of itself, constitute an attempt. The batter has to make an actual, discernible (by us as umpires) attempt to meet the pitch with the bat (ie. "bunt"). So we've seen plenty of times wherein the batter puts the bat out (or is pulling it back), and the pitch nicks or glances off the bat to become a foul ball, or just careens through the zone to be caught by the catcher anyway. Was it a strike because the Batter merely presented the bat out there? No. It's a strike because the pitch made contact with the bat; it's a foul tip because the pitch hit the bat and then was immediately touched – sharp and direct – the F2's mitt or hand and was caught (now, NCAA and OBR has the F2's physical person, not just mitt or hand). 

So, provided that the impact or contact between the pitch and the bat – in any manner or location – is immediately followed by what defines a Foul Tip, then you've got a Strike... without a swing necessarily occurring. 

[beerguy55]

It's unlucky, but the luck works both ways.  You could have a guy just standing there with the bat on his shoulder, the pitch hits the knob of his bat and goes directly to the catcher - foul tip...or it could deflect down the third base line and he gets on base because they're playing a shift.

Then there's Mike Trout who checked his swing the other night and ended up with a triple.

[pl8ump1012]

Thanks everyone - this clears things up for me!

[KenBAZ]

Guys, I have had this happen, for a strike out no less. Pitch went behind the batter's head and hit his bat. Sharp and direct to the agile catcher. I actually turned to the parents behind the short backstop and said, "I can't believe that just happened, foul tip, strike 3".

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[mark38090]

I had one Saturday that hit the bat, behind the batters head and went fair. Only the second time I've ever seen it happen. 

[Guest Lucky Parent]

1 hour ago, mark38090 said:

I had one Saturday that hit the bat, behind the batters head and went fair. Only the second time I've ever seen it happen. 

My son was pitching in his high school game the other night and did this.  The pitching line looks pretty awesome - 10 pitches, 8 strikes, 3 outs to close the game. 

What isn't reflected in the line is that he threw the first one a foot behind the batter's head, hit the bat, and the ball bounced right back to him.  Threw the batter out at first.  He laughed about that one for a week.

[Senor Azul]

As far as I know, the FED is the only code that addresses this question specifically in its rules--

2020 NFHS rule 7-2 ART. 3 . . . A foul ball or a fair hit (which may be a bunt) occurs when a pitch is touched by the bat of the batter who is in his box (2-5-1, 2-16-1,2).

For OBR this is another rule that was amended in 1920 to be a dead ball—it was added to Rule 35 (the dead ball rule)—

A wildly pitched ball which the batsman plainly makes an attempt to dodge to avoid being hit, but which ball accidentally hits his bat.

And the very next season that bit of text disappeared from the book without any explanation that I can find. So from 1921 on it has been either a foul ball or a fair hit.