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First one...got the Full Monty...


cjroman
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12u "Higher Level" travel game, two local affiliates of National programs. Travel league game. Normal/Standard pre-game conference. Working solo. 

Started in the first inning. No out, runners on 1st and 2nd.  Two runs already in.  BR swings and drives a single to RF. L batter and F2 stood up a bit anticipating a double steal, which happens. Result of the play was R1 scored outright on the single, R2 makes it to 3rd and the throw is cut off by F6 with an attempted back pick to F3 to get BR off first. Ball goes out of play and I award bases R2 scores and BR to 3rd.

HTHC is out of the dugout and asking about catchers interference...saying it should be a dead ball. Didn't I see/hear it?  I believe he was wanting it to minimize the damage. I told him I didn't have CI, but a single and subsequent action. I saw or heard nothing to indicate CI. He insists I missed it and it should be a "Dead Ball" with bases loaded. I reminded him CI is a delayed dead ball, not automatic, and I had ball in play, clean hit, runners advancing on the ball out of play.  He says "Dead Ball" again and I restate, I had ball in play, clean hit, runners advance on out of play throw. Let's play. Visitors put up 7 in the first. 

Throughout the game there were several close, and several ball out of play calls. HT had 4 runners picked off...Two outright, two rundown. He again pushed on a call where he had a runner move from 2nd to 3rd on a passed ball. I cleared out in anticipation of the play and heard F2 say, "Blue it's out".  I noted the position of the runner was about 6 feet from 3rd, glance over and confirmed the ball was under the backstop, called time. HTHC was adamant R1 should get home because he was "past" 3rd.  Again didn't ask to come speak with me, just came out and pleading his case. A couple of times telling him I had ball out of play and runner not at third. Let's play. He also didn't agree and was warned on another pickoff, where I had his F1 stepping off and throwing out of play...he pushed the angle that F1 just pivoted and threw...Again trying to reduce the base awards. He was again adamant and said three times I saw it "that" way and he didn't step off. I warned him about arguing judgement and just rushing out of the dugout. 

Bottom 5 they are down 10-2 and have another runner get picked...R1 tries to go in standing up and ball and tag are well on. Base coach helps down to HC that his foot beat the tag. Again HC is out down the baseline, this time saying I missed it and his guy was safe. I held up the "stop" sign and said, Joe, stop, you've been warned...he said his guy was safe and "you missed it". Popped him.  Then the fireworks...I was told how much I suck...each and every call I "missed", questioned why he paid me, and then told I ruined it and would never work in their league or county again...I told him he need to leave and asked for assistance from his assistant coaches. He only moved (with assistance) when I told him if he didn't leave the game would be over and a forfeit. He left and the VTHC asked if we could finish for the kids.   I asked which HT assistant would be HC and if we were going to finish the game without issue. Game finishes and the Ejected Coach is coming down from the parking lot and confronts me leaving the field...wanted to know why I ejected him and in 25 years coaching he's never been ejected...repeatedly yelling this...I told him I didn't have anything to say to him, the reason will be in my report and to back away and leave me alone so I could leave.  He kept walking next/in front of me saying "I'm done, I've already called Jason and Steve (Association President/Assigner) and I'll never ump again"...I stopped walking, asked him again to leave me alone, I have nothing to say. Started walking, he gets in front of me continuously yelling and asking why I ejected him, I owe him an explanation. I told him if he didn't stop I was calling the police, and started dialing my phone. His tack then changed to, I needed to get off his field because he had the permit and he was kicking me out...by this time his assistants and some parents kept him away so I could leave. 

Association has my back. 

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Him: “You’ll never umpire again”

You: “With your lack of knowledge about rules, you’ll never coach above 12u, so call it even”

For real though, you gave him too much rope and with rule applications, it’s okay to explain the rule but that is IT! Tell him, there’s nothing to argue, if you think I misapplied the rule, file a protest, but this game is continuing.

If you’re sure of yourself, tell him he will waste his money but if he’s so sure of the rule, file the protest.

Catchers Int is a delayed dead ball and is ignored if batter and runners advance one base.  Tell him that and move on, nothing more, no argument. Protest if you think I’m wrong.

When he wanted r2 to score, where he was was irrelevant. A wild pitch out of play is 1 base from time of pitch , regardless where runner is/was. Explain the rule, be done. Protest if you think I’m wrong.

Part of the problem is you discuss semantics, you said his runner wasn’t past 3rd, that gives him something to argue (“yes he was”) when the rule says he gets one base no matter what.  Focus on the rule and not on stuff he can argue that doesn’t matter.

I would have called police anyways, following you and accosting you can at a minimum be a report filed in case you cross paths again, get record of the issue.

I doubt it is true but if that’s first time he has been tossed, then the previous umpires did a us a disservice and that’s why he treats umpires like that, bc he got away with it

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Yowsa...in a 12 year old game?  Kind of disgusting that parents don't knock some sense into a coach that goes off the rails like that, you'd think there'd be a couple with some stones.

Always have thought to myself if I get in a situation like this after a game, flip on your phone camera and start recording.  Hard to remember in the moment though.

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On 4/15/2022 at 2:15 PM, cjroman said:

12u "Higher Level" travel game, two local affiliates of National programs. Travel league game. Normal/Standard pre-game conference. Working solo. 

Started in the first inning. No out, runners on 1st and 2nd.  Two runs already in.  BR swings and drives a single to RF. L batter and F2 stood up a bit anticipating a double steal, which happens. Result of the play was R1 scored outright on the single, R2 makes it to 3rd and the throw is cut off by F6 with an attempted back pick to F3 to get BR off first. Ball goes out of play and I award bases R2 scores and BR to 3rd.

HTHC is out of the dugout and asking about catchers interference...saying it should be a dead ball. Didn't I see/hear it?  I believe he was wanting it to minimize the damage. I told him I didn't have CI, but a single and subsequent action. I saw or heard nothing to indicate CI. He insists I missed it and it should be a "Dead Ball" with bases loaded. I reminded him CI is a delayed dead ball, not automatic, and I had ball in play, clean hit, runners advancing on the ball out of play.  He says "Dead Ball" again and I restate, I had ball in play, clean hit, runners advance on out of play throw. Let's play. Visitors put up 7 in the first. 

Throughout the game there were several close, and several ball out of play calls. HT had 4 runners picked off...Two outright, two rundown. He again pushed on a call where he had a runner move from 2nd to 3rd on a passed ball. I cleared out in anticipation of the play and heard F2 say, "Blue it's out".  I noted the position of the runner was about 6 feet from 3rd, glance over and confirmed the ball was under the backstop, called time. HTHC was adamant R1 should get home because he was "past" 3rd.  Again didn't ask to come speak with me, just came out and pleading his case. A couple of times telling him I had ball out of play and runner not at third. Let's play. He also didn't agree and was warned on another pickoff, where I had his F1 stepping off and throwing out of play...he pushed the angle that F1 just pivoted and threw...Again trying to reduce the base awards. He was again adamant and said three times I saw it "that" way and he didn't step off. I warned him about arguing judgement and just rushing out of the dugout. 

Bottom 5 they are down 10-2 and have another runner get picked...R1 tries to go in standing up and ball and tag are well on. Base coach helps down to HC that his foot beat the tag. Again HC is out down the baseline, this time saying I missed it and his guy was safe. I held up the "stop" sign and said, Joe, stop, you've been warned...he said his guy was safe and "you missed it". Popped him.  Then the fireworks...I was told how much I suck...each and every call I "missed", questioned why he paid me, and then told I ruined it and would never work in their league or county again...I told him he need to leave and asked for assistance from his assistant coaches. He only moved (with assistance) when I told him if he didn't leave the game would be over and a forfeit. He left and the VTHC asked if we could finish for the kids.   I asked which HT assistant would be HC and if we were going to finish the game without issue. Game finishes and the Ejected Coach is coming down from the parking lot and confronts me leaving the field...wanted to know why I ejected him and in 25 years coaching he's never been ejected...repeatedly yelling this...I told him I didn't have anything to say to him, the reason will be in my report and to back away and leave me alone so I could leave.  He kept walking next/in front of me saying "I'm done, I've already called Jason and Steve (Association President/Assigner) and I'll never ump again"...I stopped walking, asked him again to leave me alone, I have nothing to say. Started walking, he gets in front of me continuously yelling and asking why I ejected him, I owe him an explanation. I told him if he didn't stop I was calling the police, and started dialing my phone. His tack then changed to, I needed to get off his field because he had the permit and he was kicking me out...by this time his assistants and some parents kept him away so I could leave. 

Association has my back. 

Last time I worked a 12U I had to toss a coach for repeatedly vigorously bumping me and spitting sunflower seeds in my face, forfeit the game and had parents calling me a Fuc***g piece of sh*t, all in front of the kids at the top of their lungs. 27 years as an umpire and had never been bumped on purpose by a player of a coach. I made a citizens arrest of the coach and teams are now refusing to play in a tournament if that coach and team are involved in any way.  I worked that game to help out a fellow umpire because he couldn't find umpires due to that type of behavior.  It's the reason I will no longer work those travel tournaments. The coach had lost a protest of a rule, $100, and was about to lose another $100 but he made the right decision and listened to us umpires and the tournament director.

Yesterday I called a runner out due to a running start behind third base on a foul pop up.  First time I'd seen that in 27 years as an umpire.  The nice thing was the kid admitted to his coach that he did it.  He, nor his coach, had any idea it was against the rules.

Today I had a nice hs game lasting 8 innings in under 1:50.  2-1.  No issues.  Loved it.

And you did right ejecting that coach.  Sounds to me as if you gave him every opportunity to stay in the game and he ejected himself.

 

 

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On 4/15/2022 at 3:11 PM, SH0102 said:

Him: “You’ll never umpire again”

You: “With your lack of knowledge about rules, you’ll never coach above 12u, so call it even”

For real though, you gave him too much rope and with rule applications, it’s okay to explain the rule but that is IT! Tell him, there’s nothing to argue, if you think I misapplied the rule, file a protest, but this game is continuing.

If you’re sure of yourself, tell him he will waste his money but if he’s so sure of the rule, file the protest.

Catchers Int is a delayed dead ball and is ignored if batter and runners advance one base.  Tell him that and move on, nothing more, no argument. Protest if you think I’m wrong.

When he wanted r2 to score, where he was was irrelevant. A wild pitch out of play is 1 base from time of pitch , regardless where runner is/was. Explain the rule, be done. Protest if you think I’m wrong.

Part of the problem is you discuss semantics, you said his runner wasn’t past 3rd, that gives him something to argue (“yes he was”) when the rule says he gets one base no matter what.  Focus on the rule and not on stuff he can argue that doesn’t matter.

I would have called police anyways, following you and accosting you can at a minimum be a report filed in case you cross paths again, get record of the issue.

I doubt it is true but if that’s first time he has been tossed, then the previous umpires did a us a disservice and that’s why he treats umpires like that, bc he got away with it

Excellent post

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 4/15/2022 at 4:43 PM, JonnyCat said:

And coaches wonder why there is a shortage of officials.

I have a real problem with adults getting that worked up over a kids game.

 

See, that's where you are in error, @JonnyCat ... at that point the adults are getting worked up over their game.  They have forgotten it was the kids' game.

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2 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

at that point the adults are getting worked up over their game.  They have forgotten it was the kids' game.

Humorous tangent: Coaching my son's 7 yr old year we shook it up a bit with parents vs kids one practice. I like most, choked up on a wood bat and directed he ball somewhere not too hard. One dad though, I swear went into a trance trying to correct some historic wrong he suffered in LL. Full swing and crushed the a liner into the OF. At least he didn't taunt the kids as he ran the bases. 😂

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