Obstruction on IRR

[Velho]

Play at 9:25. Seems straightforward to me but interested in thoughts (and NCAA specifically).

Funny side note: This play is somehow not in the UNC posted version of the highlights. LOL 

Jomboy version here for those so inclined https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQkUtXkHFtE (spolier: he doesn't agree it's OBS)

 

[dumbdumb]

try this 4 1/2 minute one. 13:00-17:30. play plus ejection.

 

[Replacematt]

3 hours ago, Velho said:

Play at 9:25. Seems straightforward to me but interested in thoughts (and NCAA specifically).

Funny side note: This play is somehow not in the UNC posted version of the highlights. LOL 

Jomboy version here for those so inclined https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQkUtXkHFtE (spolier: he doesn't agree it's OBS)

 

I don't like that. 

There's still an exception for fielding the throw. Had the catcher set up there, I'd agree. 

[Richvee]

On 3/11/2022 at 6:42 PM, Matt said:

I don't like that. 

There's still an exception for fielding the throw. Had the catcher set up there, I'd agree. 

I thought F2 was set up blocking the path. . Never had to move to field the throw. Runner started his slide, had to slow down his slide prior to F2 catching the ball 

[Replacematt]

4 hours ago, Richvee said:

I thought F2 was set up blocking the path. . Never had to move to field the throw. Runner started his slide, had to slow down his slide prior to F2 catching the ball 

You can see him in front of the plate as the camera pans. He moved to his left in reaction to the throw. 

[maven]

On 3/13/2022 at 12:34 AM, Matt said:

You can see him in front of the plate as the camera pans. He moved to his left in reaction to the throw. 

That's what I see too. If NCAA wants this called OBS, they need to adopt the NFHS rule.

[Thunderheads]

What the hell is IRR??

[Velho]

1 hour ago, Thunderheads said:

What the hell is IRR??

Ha! I guess I conflagulated "Instant Replay" and "Reply Review"

[maven]

3 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

What the hell is IRR??

This just in...

[zoops]

5 hours ago, maven said:

That's what I see too. If NCAA wants this called OBS, they need to adopt the NFHS rule.

Appears to me that he's blocking the base long before fielding the throw, although the throw appears to beat the runner anyway.  I remember Hiler gave guidance a couple years ago that "in the act" could be judged as the ball being within 60 feet of the plate, which I don't think it is here, but not sure if they still want us using that.

I know NCAA has adjusted the verbiage on this in the last few years, but I think this is our rulebook reference here:

c. Unless the catcher is in possession of the ball, the catcher cannot block the pathway of the runner as he is attempting to score. If, in the judgment of the umpire, the catcher without possession of the ball blocks the pathway of the runner, the umpire shall call or signal the runner safe. Notwithstanding the above, it shall not be considered a violation if the catcher blocks the pathway of the runner in a legitimate attempt to field the throw, (e.g., in reaction to the direction, trajectory or the hop of the incoming throw, or in reaction to a throw that originates from the pitcher or drawn-in infielder). In addition, a catcher without possession of the ball shall not be adjudged to be in violation if the runner could have avoided the collision with the catcher (or other player covering home plate) by sliding.

Note: A catcher shall not be deemed to have violated the Collision Rule unless he has both blocked the plate without possession of the ball (or when not in a legitimate attempt to field the throw), and also hindered or impeded the progress of the runner attempting to score. A catcher shall not be deemed to have hindered or impeded the progress of the runner if, in the judgment of the umpire, the runner would have been called out notwithstanding the catcher having blocked the plate. In addition, a catcher should use best efforts to avoid unnecessary and forcible contact while tagging a runner attempting to slide. Catchers who routinely make unnecessary and forcible contact with a runner attempting to slide (e.g., by initiating contact using a knee, shin guard, elbow or forearm) may be subject to being ejected.

[Thunderheads]

1 hour ago, maven said:

This just in...

TMFA

[Replacematt]

5 minutes ago, zoops said:

Appears to me that he's blocking the base long before fielding the throw, although the throw appears to beat the runner anyway.  I remember Hiler gave guidance a couple years ago that "in the act" could be judged as the ball being within 60 feet of the plate, which I don't think it is here, but not sure if they still want us using that.

I know NCAA has adjusted the verbiage on this in the last few years, but I think this is our rulebook reference here:

c. Unless the catcher is in possession of the ball, the catcher cannot block the pathway of the runner as he is attempting to score. If, in the judgment of the umpire, the catcher without possession of the ball blocks the pathway of the runner, the umpire shall call or signal the runner safe. Notwithstanding the above, it shall not be considered a violation if the catcher blocks the pathway of the runner in a legitimate attempt to field the throw, (e.g., in reaction to the direction, trajectory or the hop of the incoming throw, or in reaction to a throw that originates from the pitcher or drawn-in infielder). In addition, a catcher without possession of the ball shall not be adjudged to be in violation if the runner could have avoided the collision with the catcher (or other player covering home plate) by sliding.

Note: A catcher shall not be deemed to have violated the Collision Rule unless he has both blocked the plate without possession of the ball (or when not in a legitimate attempt to field the throw), and also hindered or impeded the progress of the runner attempting to score. A catcher shall not be deemed to have hindered or impeded the progress of the runner if, in the judgment of the umpire, the runner would have been called out notwithstanding the catcher having blocked the plate. In addition, a catcher should use best efforts to avoid unnecessary and forcible contact while tagging a runner attempting to slide. Catchers who routinely make unnecessary and forcible contact with a runner attempting to slide (e.g., by initiating contact using a knee, shin guard, elbow or forearm) may be subject to being ejected.

The second paragraph is why I don't have this as OBS. 

[Velho]

17 minutes ago, Matt said:

The second paragraph is why I don't have this as OBS. 

In practice it seems the NCAA is looking for the catcher to more proactively avoid blocking / contact "in a legitimate attempt to field the throw"  I say that based on both this play and this other one that were both ruled OBS on review.

Curious: is NCAA replay done by the on field crew or is it offsite like MLB? If offsite, is centralized by the NCAA or does each conference run their own? 

[zoops]

I think i would agree with you @Matt, although it's really tight, I don't think the runner was impeded before the catcher had the ball.  Although I know they're going to probably give the runner the benefit of the doubt, I'm a little surprised this was overturned and not 'call stands,' no matter which way it would have been called.

[Replacematt]

20 minutes ago, Velho said:

In practice it seems the NCAA is looking for the catcher to more proactively avoid blocking / contact "in a legitimate attempt to field the throw"  I say that based on both this play and this other one that were both ruled OBS on review.

Curious: is NCAA replay done by the on field crew or is it offsite like MLB? If offsite, is centralized by the NCAA or does each conference run their own? 

By the crew, next to the field.

[eagle_12]

On 3/14/2022 at 2:22 PM, Velho said:

In practice it seems the NCAA is looking for the catcher to more proactively avoid blocking / contact "in a legitimate attempt to field the throw"  I say that based on both this play and this other one that were both ruled OBS on review.

Curious: is NCAA replay done by the on field crew or is it offsite like MLB? If offsite, is centralized by the NCAA or does each conference run their own? 

most situations it on-field crew looks at a monitor field-side

The SEC on conference weekends, in years past and don’t see why they would change it, has an IR crew that the on-field calls into. Same type of situation as MLB, that’s their weekend series.  Not sure if ACC has done that yet. Them or Big 12 would probably be next group to do similar. 
 

When NCAA regionals/supers start there has been a centralized IR, I thought in Pittsburgh, but not sure how that gets staffed, maybe the named alternates. 
 

CWS is manned by another of the CWS umpires that is not on-field that game. There may be others with input, Hiler now Billy Haze. 

[johnnyg08]

First time watching in real time...I don't have a problem with OBS on this. 

What I know is that these are really hard plays in real time. Especially when the rules allow for versions of "in the act of fielding"