Jump to content
  • 0

Umpire isn't behind plate and pitch is thrown


Guest rufflechip

Question

16 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 0

Assuming that the plate umpire was working the game behind the plate as usual, the ball should not have been live. The batter hit a dead ball. Nothing happened.

Not technically a "do over," because it was never "done" in the first place. 

There is no penalty. Same ruling all codes.

And the umpire should be paying better attention and nip this in the bud.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
10 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

And the home plate umpire IS NOT behind the plate?  Logic will tell me "no", the ball couldn't have been in play, but ...nowadays, ...who the hell knows! :crazy: 

Why not? Rotation after a base hit, one umpire, there's plenty of times the ball is still in play without an umpire in the vicinity of home plate. I've worked many games were the ball was only put out of play by foul balls and/or hit batters, and I definitely was not planting roots at the plate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
20 minutes ago, Matt said:

Why not? Rotation after a base hit, one umpire, there's plenty of times the ball is still in play without an umpire in the vicinity of home plate. I've worked many games were the ball was only put out of play by foul balls and/or hit batters, and I definitely was not planting roots at the plate.

Yep, yep ... I guess there are a few circumstances where this could occur .... BUT ... regardless, you're not letting a pitch happen without being behind the plate either ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
32 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

Yep, yep ... I guess there are a few circumstances where this could occur .... BUT ... regardless, you're not letting a pitch happen without being behind the plate either ...

He's not...you're not...I'm sure there's a best practice here you were all taught, but is there a "rule"?

There are plenty of scenarios in amateur ball, especially one and two man crews, where the ball remains live and the ump isn't anywhere near the plate by the time action ends...so, sure, I can see times when the pitcher/batter are ready to go and the ump isn't ready.  (that's still gotta be an umpire dawdling back to the plate, socializing with F5, or something like that)

So, newbie ump, knows enough the play never "died"...or doesn't even know enough to know it matters...he decides "well, pitcher and batter were ready, who am I to undo the home run"...we know if the ball was dead that is an error in rule application, and could be reversed on protest...assuming the ball was always live, is there a rule to support a protest...or is this a, for the umpire, "don't do that"?

 

Frankly, if I'm a solo ump and still around second base, on my way back to the plate, and the pitcher throws a pitch and the batter hits it I'm probably ejecting a coach.  (not saying that it's right)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
6 hours ago, Guest rufflechip said:

A home run resulted from the hit.  Would the home run count or would it be a "do over."

OK - so, I'm going to go out on a limb here and summarize.

1. If the play had been killed in any way (eg. ump calls "time"), it's no pitch...play can't restart if the ump doesn't make the ball live...so it's a big fat nothing

2. If the play remained live throughout there are two possibilities:

  • Ump would be within his rights to call "no pitch" and undo anything that happened, basically saying he wasn't ready (catcher, batter and umpire must be ready for a pitch) - and this is what he should do
  • If he were to let the home run stand, though very poor game management and completely unsupported technique, there may be little/no avenue to reverse the decision, though I'd like to see how a protest committee would handle it  (sure I was ready...just wasn't behind the plate)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

This is actually a very interesting question. 

I will preface what I say by saying THIS SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN....I have done a million games solo and 2-man in my life and can't recall ever having a pitcher and batter ready to go before I am, 99% of the time I am the one trying to speed them up, but I digress.

The reason it is interesting is I am trying to think of how a protest would be handled by a disallowed HR when the ball was never killed.  Yes, it's already been established what an umpire SHOULD have done (hustle back, call time when he sees action is about to occur, etc).

But if the ball is live, the batter is in the box, the pitcher does everything legally (come set, take sign on rubber, etc), does a rule support disallowing the pitch and resultant HR?  Could an offensive HC protest and win based on rule alone?  And what defines an umpire not being ready?  I have seen some HPU's in my son's youth games struggling to get their mask on, or fumbling for their indicator...are we to say we wouldn't allow it if HPU isn't even back to dirt area but would if he was behind plate and just "not ready" himself to view the pitch?

This is a question I would put in the "fun to discuss at dinner with other umpires" category.

And during COVID, some umpires called from behind the mound...is the P required to check on the umpire behind him before delivering a pitch?  I could see the umpire not being ready behind P and he delivers pitch....does that change anything?  Behind the plate you would surmise the P should see you aren't there, but disallowing the HR benefits the team that was most at fault (batter isnt looking back necessarily, but P sure is)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
On 11/30/2021 at 2:37 AM, Guest rufflechip said:

Hi:

What would happen if a pitch is thrown and the umpire isn't behind the plate to make the call.  In this particular instance the ball was hit by the batter.

Thanks!

Maybe I'm just lucky, but there have been a number of times where a pitcher TRIED to throw a pitch when I wasn't ready, or fully in my spot, or trying to get my mask back on - but none have ever gotten to the point where they THREW it.  Why?  Because I simply STOP THEM from doing it.

I know that sounds dickish, the way I'm writing that.  It's what it is, since it seems fairly obvious.  But what I mean is, most of us that umpire have this thing called a voice, and usually, one or more arms.  So if I see the young man (and let's be honest - it's generally the younger and/or less experienced players that do this) starting to make his motions behind the plate, I'm putting my hands up and hollering something to get him to stop.  I guess "No pitch!" is the favoured way, but I've been known to just say "Hang on!" or "Dude!" in that sitch.

I'd love to know how it got to such a point where not only did ANY of the pitcher/catcher/batter combo not realize the ump wasn't there to begin with, but the pitcher went all the way through his set or windup AND delivery and didn't screech to a halt on his own.

(But to specifically answer the question:  nothing would happen that would count in the game.  Pitcher might throw it, batter might hit it, but it means nothing.)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
4 hours ago, HokieUmp said:

Maybe I'm just lucky, but there have been a number of times where a pitcher TRIED to throw a pitch when I wasn't ready, or fully in my spot, or trying to get my mask back on - but none have ever gotten to the point where they THREW it.  Why?  Because I simply STOP THEM from doing it.

I know that sounds dickish, they way I'm writing that.  It's what it is, since it seems fairly obvious.  But what I mean is, most of us that umpire have this thing called a voice, and usually, one or more arms.  So if I see the young man (and let's be honest - it's generally the younger and/or less experienced players that do this) starting to make his motions behind the plate, I'm putting my hands up and hollering something to get him to stop.  I guess "No pitch!" is the favoured way, but I've been known to just say "Hang on!" or "Dude!" in that sitch.

I'd love to know how it got to such a point where not only did ANY of the pitcher/catcher/batter combo not realize the ump wasn't there to begin with, but the pitcher went all the way through his set or windup AND delivery and didn't screech to a halt on his own.

(But to specifically answer the question:  nothing would happen that would count in the game.  Pitcher might throw it, batter might hit it, but it means nothing.)

I would like to know that, too. 

However...

...if it happens, I don't agree (nor necessarily disagree) that it means nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

You're the PU and for whatever reason you are not ready and the pitcher starts his motion or actually delivers the pitch: TIME!!!!!

Noting matters after that. Don't care if the ball is in flight, the pitch now is nothing. Hit the ball, don't hit the ball, does not matter. I now have rules support as I killed the play.

Yes, you may get gruff from a coach, but at least no play can happen. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
Answer this question...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...