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Runs scoring


Guest Tomuic

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Guest Tomuic

OBR Loaded bases one out. Long hit scores runners  from third and second. Runner from first misses  second and comes around to score, batter-runner misses first and winds up with a double. The defense appeals the batter- runner at first base for the second out and then appeals the runner who  missed second for the third out. Do any of the runs score?

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1 hour ago, Guest Tomuic said:

OBR Loaded bases one out. Long hit scores runners  from third and second. Runner from first misses  second and comes around to score, batter-runner misses first and winds up with a double. The defense appeals the batter- runner at first base for the second out and then appeals the runner who  missed second for the third out. Do any of the runs score?

No runs score in OBR currently per Wendelstedt as the third out was a force at the time of the miss. I believe NCAA requires non live action appeals to be made in the "proper" order and 2 runs would score. FED has interps which require force and non force appeals to be made in the proper order but no ruling on the order of two force appeals so your choice in FED.

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Mr. Jimurray, could you provide the actual Wendelstedt interpretation you mentioned please. The 2013 Wendelstedt manual states that if multiple appeals make for exactly three outs, the defense is restricted by the order in which they appeal. So, in the OP when the first appeal was made on the batter-runner at first base that resulted in the second out and thus removed the force at second. Wouldn’t that mean the appeal on the miss of second base for the third out was a time play just as Mr. flyingron posted?

Also, the 2016 BRD in its section 13 on pages 26-27 tells us the order of appeal can make a difference. Perhaps your citation could also mention the year it was made please. Maybe it came later and thus supersedes the previous rulings.

And I am not sure why you brought up the NCAA ruling on this since this question specified OBR. But since you did, their rule 8-6b-9 tells us that multiple appeals must be in the correct order unless it is an advantageous fourth out.

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1 hour ago, Senor Azul said:

Mr. Jimurray, could you provide the actual Wendelstedt interpretation you mentioned please. The 2013 Wendelstedt manual states that if multiple appeals make for exactly three outs, the defense is restricted by the order in which they appeal. So, in the OP when the first appeal was made on the batter-runner at first base that resulted in the second out and thus removed the force at second. Wouldn’t that mean the appeal on the miss of second base for the third out was a time play just as Mr. flyingron posted?

Also, the 2016 BRD in its section 13 on pages 26-27 tells us the order of appeal can make a difference. Perhaps your citation could also mention the year it was made please. Maybe it came later and thus supersedes the previous rulings.

And I am not sure why you brought up the NCAA ruling on this since this question specified OBR. But since you did, their rule 8-6b-9 tells us that multiple appeals must be in the correct order unless it is an advantageous fourth out.

I can’t remember the year of the manual. I lost it. But I do remember that Wendelstedt or the school had a quote something like “if the force existed at the time of the miss it is a forced base appeal.” I thought your 2016 BRD even mentions that Wendelstedt quote. Prior to that the BRD quoted Fitzpatrick as agreeing with NCAA. But the order of appeals does/can matter for a force and non force miss when you start with one out. 

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27 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

I can’t remember the year of the manual. I lost it. But I do remember that Wendelstedt or the school had a quote something like “if the force existed at the time of the miss it is a forced base appeal.” I thought your 2016 BRD even mentions that Wendelstedt quote. Prior to that the BRD quoted Fitzpatrick as agreeing with NCAA. But the order of appeals does/can matter for a force and non force miss when you start with one out. 

Updating after searching it appears the cite is in @Senor Azul's 2016 BRD: 

 

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5 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

I could be wrong, but your quote would certainly pertain to a single appeal, was he forced to 2nd? Yes? Then the appeal is treated as such.

But as soon as batter is out at first, no force exists.  He no longer was forced to second, thus it becomes a time play.

 

Did you read the WRIM (Wendelstedt Rules Instruction Manual) cite in the 2017 thread? The order of multiple appeals of missed forced bases does not matter in OBR if the force existed at the time of the miss.

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