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LLWS - Not a bash, but a question


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No, this is not a bash, or am I slamming the LLWS umpires (so please, don't make it that).  However, honest question because I've never done LL ...     

Does the formal training of the LL umpires require such 'robotics'?   I mean, all in all, I think these guys are doing a fine job, but I just can't help but notice the very calculated, robotic mechanics (ala 'softball) and wondering if it's being "taught"/"instructed".  I watch the LLWS every year, but I guess noticed this MORE this time around :HS 

Also, I've noticed quite high head heights.  Again, not bashing, just noticing because a lot (if not most) of those guys are set up quite a bit higher than the top of the catchers head.  Granted, it can't be easy getting THAT low on some of these kids, but ....

Anyhow, just generic questions on things I've become aware of while watching the LLWS....an d I know there quite a few of you who are very familiar w/ LL.

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Yes LL schools want all calls to be the same looking with the exception of a called 3rd strike, where you are invited to add your own style and flair so long as you are not upstaging the game.

 

Hammers for strikes

Hammers for outs

called "Ball" s

etc..

 

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This is a shame. You've got these adults volunteering their time and services to work LL games all over the world in the hopes that one day they get the call to Williamsport. That and a stale Baby Ruth are all these volunteers get. I've said it repeatedly...LL umpires are my heroes.

So, 3K is the only time they can be individuals on the field? Why? Why govern your umpires like that? They are working these games from house league all the way to Williamsport...for free. If they execute consistent judgement, consistent rules knowledge, consistent game management and a consistent appearance...why be so restrictive with the mechanics of their work? Who or what is served by that? Let them point those strikes if they want! Yeesh...

~Dawg

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Like everyone else... not bashing but I have a question. Is ESPN paying to televise these games?  Are kids/teams required to pay a fee to play LL? Are folks charged to enter?  Are concessions free (rhetorical)? 

I'm just thinking that with an all volunteer league where does the money go?

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2 minutes ago, aaluck said:

Like everyone else... not bashing but I have a question. Is ESPN paying to televise these games?  Are kids/teams required to pay a fee to play LL? Are folks charged to enter?  Are concessions free (rhetorical)? 

I'm just thinking that with an all volunteer league where does the money go?

yes, ESPN has a 8 yr deal worth 30M+ IIRC

generally yes you pay a fee to play LL, typically $75-150 depending on league, you get a uniform and field time, umpires, etc

No fee to attend at Williamsport - concessions are cash - no idea cost

the money goes to pay for the WP complex and all the employees of LL International 

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4 minutes ago, aaluck said:

Like everyone else... not bashing but I have a question. Is ESPN paying to televise these games?  Are kids/teams required to pay a fee to play LL? Are folks charged to enter?  Are concessions free (rhetorical)? 

I'm just thinking that with an all volunteer league where does the money go?

I can tell you there is no fee to sit on that hillside. Back about 1997 my moms car broke down while on vacation driving up the hill to Williamsport. We and our three kids were behind her. While we got a part I can't even remember replaced, the boys and mom sat on the hill and watched some of the LLWS. awesome coincidence.

 

But maybe that's changed in the intervening 25 years.

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28 minutes ago, aaluck said:

So are the umps paid during the regular season?

Umps don't get paid (officially)  . . . unless the Leagues and Umps go "rouge". LL still will penalize the Umps that do somewhere down the line. 😠

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8 hours ago, aaluck said:

Like everyone else... not bashing but I have a question. Is ESPN paying to televise these games?  Are kids/teams required to pay a fee to play LL? Are folks charged to enter?  Are concessions free (rhetorical)? 

I'm just thinking that with an all volunteer league where does the money go?

Yes, ESPN pays a handsome fee to LL to televise the games. 

Leagues pay a charter fee to LL each year, along with an insurance fee. IIRC, when I was league president a number of years ago, we paid LL around $2400.00 per year to charter. It's up to the local leagues to charge whatever they deem necessary for each player. Generally in our area, it's around $100-$150.00 per player. Some leagues have large sponsor groups and charge their players less. Just depends on the league. When you charter with LL, it's basically a licensing agreement. You agree to do things their way, in return for insurance and using the LL brand.

In addition, we paid a fee to our district each year. That was based on the number of players. Our league paid around $1600.00 each year to our district. That money went to support in season tournaments, TOC, and district All Stars, among other things. Leagues are responsible for hosting All Star tournaments up to the regional level. You have district, sections, and then State. State winners go to Regional. Regional winners go to the WS. It's similar on the International side, but instead of representing a state, they represent a country or a region.

Interestingly enough, individual payment is not required to play LL. If a kids wants to play and can't afford it, the local leagues cannot deny that player. See reg XIII(c).

I've never seen an admission charge to any LL event, and I don't believe LL allows it. An admission charge is permitted in levels above majors.

The money LL collects goes to support Williamsport headquarters, as well as, the 8 Regional centers around the country. Headquarters and the regional offices have paid staff. Anything below that is volunteer. District administrators, along with local league board members are not allowed to take a salary.

LL does not pay for travel except to the World Series in each of the divisions. They only pay for the team and coaches travel, lodging, and food. This includes any International team, too. I believe all the Regional Tournaments provide lodging and meals to the teams. Parents are on their own regardless. LL puts on a total of 8 Regional and 8 WS tournaments for Majors, Intermediate, Juniors, and Seniors. One each both for baseball and softball.

LL does encounter considerable expenses to put on all the regional and WS tournaments. Some States have a large LL presence, while others do not. Regardless, it is a very large organization.

LL umpires are generally not paid during the regular season, but can be. Many leagues do not have a volunteer program, but instead rely on associations to cover their games. LL umpires are not allowed to be paid for any All Star games. All Star umpire assignments up through the State level are assigned usually by the district, or the leagues hosting the games. Regional's and WS are by application and invite only. LL does provide lodging and meals for the Regional and WS umpires. They do not provide travel, however. You are on your own no matter how far you may have to travel.

In order to be selected for a WS, you must have done a Regional first. No exceptions. Any Regional will qualify you for a WS in the Intermediate, Juniors, or Seniors division. Only a majors (12yo) Regional will qualify you for the Williamsport WS. The upper divisions Regional's and WS are faster to come by. The 12yo Regional's and WS can take years to achieve. In our district, we get a 12yo Regional assignment about every 8 years. WS can sometimes take many more years than that, if ever.

Channeling my inner MadMax!

Edited by JonnyCat
updated costs.
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24 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

The 12yo Regional's and WS can take years to achieve. In our district, we get a 12yo Regional assignment about every 8 years. WS can sometimes take many more years than that, if ever.

 . . . unless you buy your way to Regionals or WS. 🤣

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1 hour ago, JonnyCat said:

How would one do that?

Personally know 2 umps involved in doing that.  1 confessed a few years after the other one died. To answer your direct question, it’s who you know in “the powers to be” that needs money “ for personal reasons” that later became known.

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14 minutes ago, SJA said:

Personally know 2 umps involved in doing that.  1 confessed a few years after the other one died. To answer your direct question, it’s who you know in “the powers to be” that needs money “ for personal reasons” that later became known.

Ahh, makes sense. Something like that, not LL, was rumored to happen here in my town a number of years ago.

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8 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

Ahh, makes sense. Something like that, not LL, was rumored to happen here in my town a number of years ago.

Not LL ?? , sorry, Yes LL.. Unless I’m misunderstanding you?

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1 hour ago, SJA said:

Not LL ?? , sorry, Yes LL.. Unless I’m misunderstanding you?

Sorry, I meant a similar "pay for play" happened in one of our local umpire associations. It was not LL related. Some umpires may have been benefiting with big games for "helping" out an assignor.

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6 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

Yes, ESPN pays a handsome fee to LL to televise the games. 

Leagues pay a charter fee to LL each year, along with an insurance fee. IIRC, when I was league president a number of years ago, we paid LL around $4000.00 per year to charter. It's up to the local leagues to charge whatever they deem necessary for each player. Generally in our area, it's around $100-$150.00 per player. Some leagues have large sponsor groups and charge their players less. Just depends on the league. When you charter with LL, it's basically a licensing agreement. You agree to do things their way, in return for insurance and using the LL brand.

In addition, we paid a fee to our district each year. That was based on the number of players. Our league paid around $1600.00 each year to our district. That money went to support in season tournaments, TOC, and district All Stars, among other things. Leagues are responsible for hosting All Star tournaments up to the regional level. You have district, sections, and then State. State winners go to Regional. Regional winners go to the WS. It's similar on the International side, but instead of representing a state, they represent a country or a region.

Interestingly enough, individual payment is not required to play LL. If a kids wants to play and can't afford it, the local leagues cannot deny that player. See reg XIII(c).

I've never seen an admission charge to any LL event, and I don't believe LL allows it. An admission charge is permitted in levels above majors.

The money LL collects goes to support Williamsport headquarters, as well as, the 8 Regional centers around the country. Headquarters and the regional offices have paid staff. Anything below that is volunteer. District administrators, along with local league board members are not allowed to take a salary.

LL does not pay for travel except to the World Series in each of the divisions. They only pay for the team and coaches travel, lodging, and food. This includes any International team, too. I believe all the Regional Tournaments provide lodging and meals to the teams. Parents are on their own regardless. LL puts on a total of 8 Regional and 8 WS tournaments for Majors, Intermediate, Juniors, and Seniors. One each both for baseball and softball.

LL does encounter considerable expenses to put on all the regional and WS tournaments. Some States have a large LL presence, while others do not. Regardless, it is a very large organization.

LL umpires are generally not paid during the regular season, but can be. Many leagues do not have a volunteer program, but instead rely on associations to cover their games. LL umpires are not allowed to be paid for any All Star games. All Star umpire assignments up through the State level are assigned usually by the district, or the leagues hosting the games. Regional's and WS are by application and invite only. LL does provide lodging and meals for the Regional and WS umpires. They do not provide travel, however. You are on your own no matter how far you may have to travel.

In order to be selected for a WS, you must have done a Regional first. No exceptions. Any Regional will qualify you for a WS in the Intermediate, Juniors, or Seniors division. Only a majors (12yo) Regional will qualify you for the Williamsport WS. The upper divisions Regional's and WS are faster to come by. The 12yo Regional's and WS can take years to achieve. In our district, we get a 12yo Regional assignment about every 8 years. WS can sometimes take many more years than that, if ever.

Channeling my inner MadMax!

The charter fee per team is really cheap. Like $16 per team last I knew. You can get insurance elsewhere if it passes muster with LL.

Fees to district are set by each district no fixed fee.

LL picks up team expenses to regionals and Williamsport. Teams are housed on site.

Can get mileage to states.

 

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2 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

The charter fee per team is really cheap. Like $16 per team last I knew. You can get insurance elsewhere if it passes muster with LL.

The $4000.00 number may have included the district fees we paid. Now that I think about it, we may have paid $2400.00 to LL and $1600.00 to the district. Regardless, it's still a substantial amount. Good luck with not using LL insurance.

Fees to district are set by each district no fixed fee.

Yes.

LL picks up team expenses to regionals and Williamsport. Teams are housed on site.

I'm not sure LL picks up the team travel expenses to get to Regional's. But I could be wrong. I know they pay for the travel to the WS, but I think Regional's, you are on your own. They do house them and feed them at Regional's.

Can get mileage to states.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

They get some expense reimbursement and gear at Williamsport

Yup...I'd venture to say what...8% of all LL umpires ever get to Williamsport and get those reimbursements and gear?

It's just my opinion and I could be wrong but...the adult volunteer LL umpires is the greatest swindle in the history of volunteerism. Especially when you consider their working conditions at the house level.

~Dawg

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7 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Yup...I'd venture to say what...8% of all LL umpires ever get to Williamsport and get those reimbursements and gear?

It's just my opinion and I could be wrong but...the adult volunteer LL umpires is the greatest swindle in the history of volunteerism. Especially when you consider their working conditions at the house level.

~Dawg

I can also point out they prefer guys that keep their mouth shut and don't talk about issues they see. Specially on forums and other social media things..

 

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43 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

I can also point out they prefer guys that keep their mouth shut and don't talk about issues they see. Specially on forums and other social media things..

 

Whew, good thing we don't do any of that stuff here! :fuel::stir

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