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Runner passes 1B without touching the base before ball arrives. Can he be called out on replay review?


Scotty_Ump

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Slight tangent: my understanding of the current mechanic for BR obtaining first pass but not touching is no action so I assume BU gave Safe mechanic in real time to indicate Obstruction by F3.

Good catch @Scotty_Ump This is a nice one to deconstruct.

MLB needs to get Umps on mics to explain what's going on.

I went to the MLB app to see the Jays broadcast but both teams used the same video feed. Guessing all the announcers were remote. Thanks Covid.

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25 minutes ago, Velho said:

Slight tangent: my understanding of the current mechanic for BR obtaining first pass but not touching is no action so I assume BU gave Safe mechanic in real time to indicate Obstruction by F3.

Good catch @Scotty_Ump This is a nice one to deconstruct.

MLB needs to get Umps on mics to explain what's going on.

I went to the MLB app to see the Jays broadcast but both teams used the same video feed. Guessing all the announcers were remote. Thanks Covid.

Your understanding of the MLBUM interp making no call for a missed 1B but the last occurrence covered by CCS generated some opinions that not all/any MLB umps agreed with that change. I don't think he was signaling safe on obstruction.

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6 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Your understanding of the MLBUM interp making no call for a missed 1B

Thanks @Jimurray (I assume you mean my understanding is right)

 

7 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

but the last occurrence covered by CCS generated some opinions that not all/any MLB umps agreed with that change. I don't think he was signaling safe on obstruction.

I can share how disregarding management direction is working out for me lately. We'll see how it's goes for him. :)

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I randomly left the Jays' broadcast running and got this tidbit from the sideline reporter:

According to the 3rd base coach, the umps didn't consider F3 obstruction and called BR safe because F3 he never tagged 1B [end paraphrase]. Jay's announcers rightly pointed out the video clearly showed F3 tagged 1B.

 

Lots of fodder for @Gil on this one

 

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2019 MLBUM Manual States the following:

Play: Batter-Runner hits a ground ball and beats the play at first base but misses the base.

Ruling: The proper mechanic is for the umpire to make no call on the play because the batter-runner has not yet touched first base. If the defense appeals by tagging the runner (or base) and appealing that the runner missed first base before the runner returns to first base, the batter-runner would be declared out. 

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From the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 5.12, p. 55):

A runner does not acquire the right to an unoccupied base on an attempt to retire the runner until he touches it before he is put out. This is true regardless of whether the umpire’s act of not making a call signifies to the defensive team that the runner failed to touch the base for purposes of an appeal play.

Play 1:  Batter-runner hits a ground ball and beats the play at first base but misses the bag as he passes it with both feet.

Ruling 1:  The proper mechanic is for the umpire to make no call on the play because the batter-runner has not yet touched first base. If the defense appeals by tagging the runner (or base) and appealing that the runner missed first base before the runner returns to first base, the batter-runner would be declared out…

 

This text was new in the book for the 2018 season in Minor League Baseball. It further explained that the interpretation was added to clarify that on plays where the batter-runner overruns and misses first base and has both feet beyond the base before a play is made there, the umpire should make no “Safe” call (i.e., make no call on the play).

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28 minutes ago, Velho said:

Lots of fodder for @Gil on this one

Now that’s a video I’m looking forward to. MLB has got to either mic up the crew chief to announce replay decisions or have a “comms director” umpire in NY who can cut into broadcasts to explain the mechanics of plays like this one to broadcast team. 
 

Side question: are retired umpires somehow “forbidden” from taking jobs at FOX or MLB Network to do for broadcasts what retired NFL refs are doing on FOX and CBS?

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50 minutes ago, Velho said:

I randomly left the Jays' broadcast running and got this tidbit from the sideline reporter:

According to the 3rd base coach, the umps didn't consider F3 obstruction and called BR safe because F3 he never tagged 1B [end paraphrase]. Jay's announcers rightly pointed out the video clearly showed F3 tagged 1B.

 

Lots of fodder for @Gil on this one

 

F3 never tagged 1B on the initial throw. Once the BR completely passes 1B the out has to be an obvious appeal, tag of either base or runner, that the BR missed 1B. That touch was not an appeal. The need for an appeal did not change in the MLBUM's various interps. Only the signal was changed if anyone ascribed to that change, which is up for debate .

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2019 MiLB Manual: No signal, page 46

2019 MLBUM Manual: No signal

2018 MLBUM: Same as 2019

2017 MLBUM: Same as 2018, 2019

2016 MLBUM: Play: Batter-Runner hits a ground ball and beats the play at first base but misses the base.

Ruling: The proper mechanic is for the umpire to call the runner safe, indicating he beat the play. If the defense appeals by tagging the runner (or base) and appealing that the runner missed first base before the runner returns to first base, the batter-runner would be declared out. 

Old Mechanic: MLBUM: 2007, 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016

Related Play:

 

 

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Well, Mr. johnnyg08, I also have the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual and I am looking at the exact page I cited. The citation I gave is absolutely correct--I don't know why there would be any discrepancy between my copy and yours. Section 5.12 talks about OBR rule 5.06(a)(1) if that helps at all. My copy has 183 pages counting blank end pages and it shows a copyright date of 2021.

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9 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

Well, Mr. johnnyg08, I also have the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual and I am looking at the exact page I cited. The citation I gave is absolutely correct--I don't know why there would be any discrepancy between my copy and yours. Section 5.12 talks about OBR rule 5.06(a)(1) if that helps at all. My copy has 183 pages counting blank end pages and it shows a copyright date of 2021.

You're probably right...I have a stack of manuals out right now...per my earlier post...so I was probably looking at the wrong one. :-)

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