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Runner steals 2nd before time of pitch, batter fouls it off


mac266

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NFHS rules.  Runner on 1st, and I don't remember how many outs (irrelevant to the situation). 

The pitcher came set and the runner started running to 2nd.  The pitcher never moved -- never balked, flinched, or began the delivery.  He just stood there set while the runner was going and everyone was yelling at him.  The runner touched 2nd AND THEN the pitcher began his movement.  There was no balk; his pitch was delivered correctly.

The batter fouled it off.  The batter must return to the last legally touched pitch before time of pitch.  I ruled that since the runner had legally touched 2nd base before time of pitch, he got to remain on 2nd.  I overheard an assistant coach ask the head coach if I was right, and the reply was "I don't have time to look it up."  They were losing badly, so he didn't want to argue.

Between innings I explained what I had, and he accepted it without argument.  In fact, he even said, "Yep, must return to the last legally touched base..." 

I've never seen this before, so I'm wondering if I was right.

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35 minutes ago, mac266 said:

NFHS rules.  Runner on 1st, and I don't remember how many outs (irrelevant to the situation). 

The pitcher came set and the runner started running to 2nd.  The pitcher never moved -- never balked, flinched, or began the delivery.  He just stood there set while the runner was going and everyone was yelling at him.  The runner touched 2nd AND THEN the pitcher began his movement.  There was no balk; his pitch was delivered correctly.

The batter fouled it off.  The batter must return to the last legally touched pitch before time of pitch.  I ruled that since the runner had legally touched 2nd base before time of pitch, he got to remain on 2nd.  I overheard an assistant coach ask the head coach if I was right, and the reply was "I don't have time to look it up."  They were losing badly, so he didn't want to argue.

Between innings I explained what I had, and he accepted it without argument.  In fact, he even said, "Yep, must return to the last legally touched base..." 

I've never seen this before, so I'm wondering if I was right.

You got it right. Normally we wouldn't tell a coach anything about what we ruled unless they come out for an explanation at the time of the ruling but this seems like an unusual game in that the runner made second without any motion by the pitcher, the batter watched the pitcher in the set for a while and didn't ask for time, and the coach appeared to have the ability to look up a rule other than the time factor. Did you have to "rule" anything or just put the ball in play while R2 was near/at 2B?

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2019 NFHS Case Book play 2.28.3 Situation A:  R3 and R1 with no outs. F1 contacts the pitcher’s plate and assumes the set position stance. As he begins his stretch, R1 advances toward second base attempting to steal. F1 realizes R1 is stealing but he does not throw to second, fearing that R3 will break for home and score. F1 completes his stretch, coming to a pause with the ball in both hands in front of his body. R1 reaches second and rounds it, after which F1 delivers the ball to B3, who fouls a pitch into the stands. RULING:  R1 is allowed to remain on second because he was there prior to the time of the pitch. The definition of “time of the pitch” determines the base to which R1 is entitled.

For all three codes, the time of pitch for the set position “occurs the instant the pitcher, after coming to a complete and discernible stop, starts any movement of his arms or legs that commits him to pitch.” (FED rule 2-28-3)

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On 8/4/2021 at 4:06 PM, mac266 said:

I've never seen this before, so I'm wondering if I was right.

 

On 8/4/2021 at 4:48 PM, Senor Azul said:

RULING:  R1 is allowed to remain on second because he was there prior to the time of the pitch. The definition of “time of the pitch” determines the base to which R1 is entitled.

You nailed it. Good call Mac!

Check that one off the bucket list.

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On 8/4/2021 at 5:06 PM, mac266 said:

NFHS rules.  Runner on 1st, and I don't remember how many outs (irrelevant to the situation). 

The pitcher came set and the runner started running to 2nd.  The pitcher never moved -- never balked, flinched, or began the delivery.  He just stood there set while the runner was going and everyone was yelling at him.  The runner touched 2nd AND THEN the pitcher began his movement.  There was no balk; his pitch was delivered correctly.

The batter fouled it off.  The batter must return to the last legally touched pitch before time of pitch.  I ruled that since the runner had legally touched 2nd base before time of pitch, he got to remain on 2nd.  I overheard an assistant coach ask the head coach if I was right, and the reply was "I don't have time to look it up."  They were losing badly, so he didn't want to argue.

Between innings I explained what I had, and he accepted it without argument.  In fact, he even said, "Yep, must return to the last legally touched base..." 

I've never seen this before, so I'm wondering if I was right.

This gets more interesting where - in the play I saw a few years ago - after reaching second, the pitch is thrown and the batter flies out, and defense tries to appeal to first.    Same ruling - runner only obligated to return/tag second.   Defense argued, of course.  Umpire got it right in that game.

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