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Base Coaches in Youth Travel (FED rules) Who Are Not Managers...and are making safe mechanics on close plays


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17 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Dump them? Warn them? Ignore them? Something else...?

~Dawg

I tell them to stop and if they don't it will work against them.  I'll call the runner out even if he's safe.  It's always worked after the first runner.

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While staring him down after your call on the banger, “You missed that one, coach.”

“You know we’re not looking at you when you safe your own guys, right?”

“How come you’ve never given a punch-out coach?”

Mostly, he needs ignored. Unless it includes some hysterics or unacceptable vocals. But if he looks like a fool flapping his arms, I really don’t care.


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2 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Dump them? Warn them? Ignore them? Something else...?

~Dawg

just the mechanics, only if it is infecting the bench or fence.  Verbalizing  it?  I'm stopping that with a warning and then restriction if it continues. That can confuse the defense (and offense for that matter)

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I ignore them, and make my call.  Sometimes, I'm ALSO making the safe sign;  sometimes, I'm banging an out.

I don't have an issue being a red-ass, or at least internalizing some anger over dipSH*# behaviour by coaches, but this doesn't even make me bat an eye.  Should I be getting more pissed off about it?  Seems like if I do, I'm just unnecessarily starting something.

Besides, MY call's the one that matters.

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9 hours ago, Catch18 said:

While staring him down after your call on the banger, “You missed that one, coach.”

“You know we’re not looking at you when you safe your own guys, right?”

“How come you’ve never given a punch-out coach?”

Mostly, he needs ignored. Unless it includes some hysterics or unacceptable vocals. But if he looks like a fool flapping his arms, I really don’t care.


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"If you felt the need to try to influence me, he must have been out."

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I do find this irritating, as it amounts to the coach arguing with a judgement call. Good baseball guys just don't do it. Funny, but I've never had a coach hammer or verbalize a runner out.

Depending on the state of the relationship with the coaching staff, I'll sometimes say in a friendly way, "hey coach, if you're going to keep using umpire's signals, I'm going to start waving your runners around".

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IMO If you don’t address this behavior it will come back to bite you in the you know what. The first time you make a safe call while the base coach is over there yelling safe and flailing his arms you’re going to hear it from the other side.
Too many times officials look at situations like this and decide to be OOO’s when it’s a perfect opportunity to educate and gain some respect.  
Based on your personality responses will vary, so find  what works best for you.

Ex: “Please allow me to do my job Coach, Thank You”.

”Am I going to see some “OUTS” from you today Coach?”

Coach: “SAFE”

Ump: “OUT! Sorry Coach it’s a habit, when you say safe I say out”.  (But ONLY if he is out) @LRZ 

OR::sarcasm:

”TIME! THAT’s A WARNING. MAKE A NOTE OF THAT PARTNER. NEXT TIME YOUR GONE AND THE HC IS RESTRICTED.  I’M IN CHARGE HERE AND THAT BEHAVIOR WILL NOT BE TOLERATED ON MY FIELD “.

 

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17 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Dump them?

Can’t. Not an ejectable offense. 

17 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Warn them?

To what end? As my esteemed colleague @KenBAZ points out, the… (I can’t say “good”) experienced ones don’t do it, and only the new-to-the-scene guys will throw their arms out in a hopeful safe signal, only to have them dashed by an umpire who has been calling games for as many years as they’ve been playing ball themselves. Going to the point of formally warning them or chastising them is like explaining to your dog that he shouldn’t piddle on the carpet. 

17 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Ignore them?

Genuinely works best. If you want to make a point, whack an Out call when you are 100% emphatically correct, right at ‘em. Maybe throw in there an emphatic Dave Hester -esque “YUUUUP!” (or “NOOOOOPE!”, your choice) just to punctuate it. If he mentions something like,”Gee Blue, you don’t have to be so demonstrative”, you can reply with, “Huh. Kinda ridiculous, isn’t it? It was pretty obvious he was out.”… or something like that. 

Make your own humor of it. You’re right. He ain’t. 

 

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However If you choose to stop this, it should be consistent with two factors, at least: (1) your personality and demeanor and (2) the game circumstances.

(1) I can't "do" humor. I don't even try.

(2) U10, eg, or HS/college? Daddy coaches or coaches who have been around and know what they are doing? Travel/showcase or in-house rec league? Competitive or a blow-out?

In MLB, if a coach refuses your requests to stop, I think you can eject him, getting him off the playing field and into the dugout, under 8.01(b,d): "Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or club officer or employee to do or refrain from doing anything which affects the administering of these rules, and to enforce the prescribed penalties.... Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field."

Edited by LRZ
Respect for differing opinions
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6 hours ago, Tborze said:

”TIME! THAT’s A WARNING. MAKE A NOTE OF THAT PARTNER. NEXT TIME YOUR GONE AND THE HC IS RESTRICTED.  I’M IN CHARGE HERE AND THAT BEHAVIOR WILL NOT BE TOLERATED ON MY FIELD “.

 

Yup...thank you...I am taking this right off your shelf and putting it into play.

Technically, under FED rules we ignore, warn verbal, warn written, restrict and eject managers. Coaches and players...none of that applies, assuming we can justify the ejection to our superiors.

Magic action and words always apply...but, I'm not ejecting a non-managing base coach for this on his/her first offense. Thanks again for your suggestion, T.

~Dawg

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Ignore unless it’s verbal. 
I’m a little surprised how many are saying they don’t see it from “ good baseball guys”. I see it at every level I work, and levels higher than I work…. All the way up to MLB. Not only the coaches, the runner too…….usually before he even touches the base. For me it’s harmless. I just laugh. ( on the inside)  

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I can understand the many here who don't have an issue with it, but I don't agree.

This isn't an automatic reaction from me, but there is one facility that I work that the TD expressly puts it in the information that goes out to teams and the UIC expressly tells us do not allow it.  Warn, eject ... and carry your warning over from previous games.  I can't say I agree with all that either.

There are the ones who do it as an occasional emotional expression, and I get that.  You might get one of those good quips from me or just a "hey, knock it off."  However, you have those who are non-stop, and IMO those are no different than a batter drawing a line or a manger bringing the book on the field.  It is an effort to show up the umpire.

Big picture, nip it in the bud.  Put an end to this practice before it does become a bigger problem.

 

Edit: Another fun one (no, don't do this) ... call time and yell that you need an ambulance since the first base coach seems to keep losing his balance.

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Since the OP is asking about FED rules here are some things to keep in mind.

Rule 3-2-1 says a team may use base coaches—they are not required by rule to be there. This rule also states that the base coach may (only) address his base runner(s) or his batter.

Rule 3-3-1f tells us that a coach shall not commit any unsportsmanlike act to include, but not limited to,

1. use of words or actions to incite or attempt to incite spectators demonstrations,

2. use of profanity, intimidation tactics, remarks reflecting unfavorably upon any other person, or taunting or baiting. The NFHS disapproves of any form of taunting.

4. behavior in any manner not in accordance with the spirit of fair play;

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On 7/25/2021 at 12:40 PM, Tborze said:

 

”TIME! THAT’s A WARNING. MAKE A NOTE OF THAT PARTNER. NEXT TIME YOUR GONE AND THE HC IS RESTRICTED.  I’M IN CHARGE HERE AND THAT BEHAVIOR WILL NOT BE TOLERATED ON MY FIELD “.

 

 

18 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Yup...thank you...I am taking this right off your shelf and putting it into play.

Technically, under FED rules we ignore, warn verbal, warn written, restrict and eject managers. Coaches and players...none of that applies, assuming we can justify the ejection to our superiors.

Magic action and words always apply...but, I'm not ejecting a non-managing base coach for this on his/her first offense. Thanks again for your suggestion, T.

~Dawg

OK.  I'm not 100% sure that @Tborze is kidding here, but ...I don't think so.   I think that direction instantly labels you as a Red Ass and would cause more problems than not.  Keeping in mind, this is a coach making a hand signal, not a verbal (which could warrant a stern warning).  There are other much better ideas here, but for me ... I lean towards IGNORE.   If it's CONSTANT, then it's simply a: "Coach, .. I got this ...please let me make the calls" (do it with a calm voice and maybe a smile) ... usually you'll get an apology.

If it continues ... you can always use what was mentioned above:  Coach signals a big safe sign: (B/R is out) ...just extend your timing a little longer .....  "NOPE ... look right at him and sell a big punch out"

That's my .02, ymmv

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I suppose there is a factor we hadn’t discussed, in hand with @Senor Azulposting the rule ...

What is the outcome?  If he is over there trying to take flight and nobody is paying any attention to him, it’s hard to say there is any harm being done.

If he is over there auditioning for the Flying Wallendas AND it is causing a commotion with the crowd or team feeding off of it ... different story.

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Coaches and players get caught up in the moment - let it go. Otherwise, you just look like an intolerable hard ass and you've just told everyone on the field, both teams, that you're going to be a problem to deal with.  It falls under the umbrella of making yourself the center of attention.   Coaches hate that...they want to be the center of attention.

If it looks like he's doing it to distract the defense, then deal with it.   

If he does it every single time...maybe a quip...

"Coach, I take it that when you don't signal safe you're pretty sure your player is out?"

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22 hours ago, Thunderheads said:
OK.  I'm not 100% sure that @Tborze is kidding here, but ...I don't think so.   I think that direction instantly labels you as a Red Ass and would cause more problems than not. 

That's my .02, ymmv

I was being facetious! But some seem to take that approach. At most, I may have a word with the HC between innings. 
I was under the impression that the coach was also verbalizing safe.  Sorry, but that could possibly influence my opinion, and others. Maybe it’s just a pet peeve. 


 

 

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2 minutes ago, Tborze said:

I was being facetious! But some seem to take that approach. At most, I may have a word with the HC between innings. 
I was under the impression that the coach was also verbalizing safe.  Sorry, but that could possibly influence my opinion, and others. Maybe it’s just a pet peeve. 


 

 

You've been around awhile, and I was pretty sure you were being facetious, but you didn't indicate it otherwise :D    I concur with your other statement

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On 7/25/2021 at 7:27 PM, SeeingEyeDog said:

 

Technically, under FED rules we ignore, warn verbal, warn written, restrict and eject managers. Coaches and players...none of that applies, assuming we can justify the ejection to our superiors.

Magic action and words always apply...but, I'm not ejecting a non-managing base coach for this on his/her first offense. Thanks again for your suggestion, T.

~Dawg

You can absolutely restrict assistants. 
 

Please don’t use that suggestion!

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59 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

We "can" restrict assistants...that's our judgement. FED rules speak specifically about managers.

Maybe add a sarcasm warning/emoji next time...I thought you were legit trying to help.

~Dawg

Fixed it.

59 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

We "can" restrict assistants...that's our judgement. FED rules speak specifically about managers.

Maybe add a sarcasm warning/emoji next time...I thought you were legit trying to help.

~Dawg

I was lagitimately trying to help.  ;)

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On 7/25/2021 at 7:14 PM, Richvee said:

I’m a little surprised how many are saying they don’t see it from “ good baseball guys”.

It’s more “frequency & familiarity” for me, @KenBAZ and the rest of us in Phoenix. We see these coaches (and players, too) so often, on so many games, on so many plays, these guys know what Outs look like, and what our (umpire) “calling cards” are. Most umpires – Ken and I included – won’t be affected or swayed by a BC’s pleadings, so what’s the point? Conversely, there are the occasional umpires who get waaaay bent out of shape over a BC’s theatrics, and go right to emphatically cautioning, formally warning, or generally escalating strife to the point of ejecting. 

… all over a hopeful safe mechanic? 🤨 Really??

There are far taller hills to die on, guys.

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I've had a "light hearted" conversation with THAT coach and his manager before.  I turned to the Manager and said,....."Since your base coach wants to continue to do my job of calling runners safe, I assume that you will be ok during a tense game situation, if I make a pitching change for you".  Manager looks at his coach and says "Knock it off."   and they all lived happily ever after......

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