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I pray for his recovery, both physical and mental.  An absolute travesty.

I actually am Shocked this doesn’t happen more often…the USA has become a trash pit…a guy yesterday shot and killed his 2 year old and shot the mom bc they were arguing, a 72 year old woman was shot in the head while sitting at a stop sign, prob bc she was driving too slow for someone.  The moral Compass of our society has disappeared.

At the end of the day, it’s a game. If I blow a call, maybe teach the kid that people make mistakes, it’s how we overcome them that matters, or teach them that life isn’t always fair.  But no, let’s just assault them in the parking lot, that’s a great life lesson to teach your kid.

I wonder if the other parents stood around with cell phones out and watched it 🤔 

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4 hours ago, SJA said:

In today's world, there is no "safety in numbers". People don't want to get involved. For every good deed there is usually a regrettable outcome 😞

Truer words have never been spoken. A few years back there was 4-5 videos of a Huntington Beach Police Officer involved in a fight with a mentally unstable suspect. The fight started on their feet, went to the ground, and then back to their feet where the Officer ended up shooting and killing the suspect. The suspect, if I recall had gotten an item or items off the duty belt which made the officer fear for his life with the suspect now having weapons.

5 adults stood there and taped this, from beginning to end. Not a single one of them jumped in to help the officer, especially when the fight went to the ground. If one of these adults had helped subdue the combatant, A) he most likely would be alive today and B) The 20 something officer would not have to live the rest of his life knowing he was faced to shoot this unstable man.

 

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1 hour ago, Mudisfun said:

Truer words have never been spoken. A few years back there was 4-5 videos of a Huntington Beach Police Officer involved in a fight with a mentally unstable suspect. The fight started on their feet, went to the ground, and then back to their feet where the Officer ended up shooting and killing the suspect. The suspect, if I recall had gotten an item or items off the duty belt which made the officer fear for his life with the suspect now having weapons.

5 adults stood there and taped this, from beginning to end. Not a single one of them jumped in to help the officer, especially when the fight went to the ground. If one of these adults had helped subdue the combatant, A) he most likely would be alive today and B) The 20 something officer would not have to live the rest of his life knowing he was faced to shoot this unstable man.

 

Or one of THEM would be dead.

First rule of any rescue operation - don't turn one victim into two.  Or one of them kills the the combatant by mistake.  Were any of those people trained to handle a dangerous person who was obviously capable enough to hold his own with a trained and fit police officer?      We'd all like to think they could have helped, we never consider what could happen if it goes sideways.  How would that young cop feel if one of the people trying to help took a shiv in the heart.  I don't know what I'd do in that situation.   I hope I would or could help...but when the chips are down, who knows?

It's one thing to step in and help someone who's obviously overmatched and is a victim of an assault or worse (and even that has the same fundamental risks to consider) - it's another to step into to a situation where one of the people is a cop, doing his duty, trained to handle it.

I won't fault anyone for not stepping in.   Otherwise, are we going to blame the videographers for George Floyd's death too?

We are weird when it comes to altruism - it's all great when it's someone else risking themselves for the greater good.   Headline One - Guy drowns in river..."why didn't anyone try to rescue him."  Headline Two - Guy drowns in river, three others missing after trying to rescue him..."oh, my, how tragic.  But what heroes they were."  

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8 hours ago, SH0102 said:

I pray for his recovery, both physical and mental.  An absolute travesty.

I actually am Shocked this doesn’t happen more often…the USA has become a trash pit…a guy yesterday shot and killed his 2 year old and shot the mom bc they were arguing, a 72 year old woman was shot in the head while sitting at a stop sign, prob bc she was driving too slow for someone.  The moral Compass of our society has disappeared.

The data shows otherwise. This has always happened, and usually in worse numbers...you simply hear about it more often.

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8 hours ago, Matt said:

The data shows otherwise. This has always happened, and usually in worse numbers...you simply hear about it more often.

Matt, for a change, this isn't to challenge your post ... can you point to any data source?  That is something that has always interested me.

Edit: Sorry, I may have misread your post.  If you were talking about society in general, disregard.  I thought you were talking about stats on sports officials.

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1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

Matt, for a change, this isn't to challenge your post ... can you point to any data source?  That is something that has always interested me.

Edit: Sorry, I may have misread your post.  If you were talking about society in general, disregard.  I thought you were talking about stats on sports officials.

Yep, I was talking about society in general. Being a former crime analyst, I could go way deeper into the constraints, causes, and just about everything else regarding what I am about to share, but I don't do it anymore for a reason or two. It's still a passion of mine, but passion only goes so far. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

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6 hours ago, Matt said:

Yep, I was talking about society in general. Being a former crime analyst, I could go way deeper into the constraints, causes, and just about everything else regarding what I am about to share, but I don't do it anymore for a reason or two. It's still a passion of mine, but passion only goes so far. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

Interesting Statistics

Very Interesting

 

When I look for stats on that stuff I look at what the FBI says,  Not that the Feds do not lie too but heh, I like the .gov source.

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s

 

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Peace be upon brother Bob...

Brothers, there are no guarantees...there are only the things we can do to minimize our risk.

Work together in all things. Park together in a well lit area away from team buses or where most of the teams' vehicles may park. This will likely mean a longer walk. Walk to the field together and leave the field together. Avoid having anything on your vehicle that identifies you as an umpire. Do not leave your parking spot to go home until your crew are all ready to roll out.

If you are working a game solo, be doubly aware of your surroundings.

And whether solo or not, sometimes it's best for the crew to depart once plate has removed his gear, even if you all leave wearing your uniforms. You can always change when you get home as an alternative.

~Dawg

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@SeeingEyeDog -- All great advice!  I'd like to take something you said a little further ... DO NOT WORK GAMES SOLO as a standard practice.  I won't say "never" because things happen, but I implore umpires to make a practice of declining games that are contracted solo.

My last game of the summer (14u state tournament), I drove home in full umpire gear because we were escorted off the field, out of the park, and onto the highway by police.  I considered stopping at a gas station to take it off, but I didn't trust that somebody from the game wouldn't stop there.  Fortunately I only had a 15-minute drive home.  It's not easy driving in gear, but I guess it is added protection if you crash!

As an umpiring community, we need to start standing up against the working conditions.  Yes, that means losing some money, but we need to start turning down assignments from organizations (or teams) that do not provide a safe and productive work environment.  I know they can't control the random rogue idiot, but we all know of places that it is a near-constant barrage of abuse from coaches and fans from the first pitch to the last out and the organizers do nothing because "paying customers."

If anybody hear is from Colorado or Oklahoma, have you heard anything about "umpire strikes" in those areas?  On the softball forum I frequent there have been posts about large tournaments in both those states (sorry, not sure about the cities) being canceled because they could not find umpires or umpires were refusing their contracts (twice the term "strike" was specifically used). 

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Refusing to work solo at lower levels is simply not feasible here, because of the dire shortage of umpires; virtually all small-field games would go un-umpired. Besides, most of these games--not all, but most--are played without much hassle from coaches and parents.

However, umpires should boycott venues or events where abuse is chronic.

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2 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

All great advice!  I'd like to take something you said a little further ... DO NOT WORK GAMES SOLO as a standard practice.  I won't say "never" because things happen, but I implore umpires to make a practice of declining games that are contracted solo.

This problem is getting nothing but worse.  I lay the blame on several factors but first and foremost tournament directors (TD). TDs are the reason I no longer do any baseball in the summer.  I now limit myself to HS/College where there are consequences to behavior.

I will not name names but what I have found is that these summer 'leagues' are nothing but money makers.  The people that run them let the coaches, players and fans act like idiots, because they want the money. Entry fees (teams), entry fees (parents), concessions, shirts, etc. When coaches, fans and players are not held accountable for their actions and removed it escalates to violence. 

I have told this before but here is a prime example: My son and an SEC (high level games) official were doing a 18u tournament. Kids, fans and coaches cursing them (that's not a fun%^& strike, your fu^&$$ horrible) on and on. In the bottom of the first (yeah that bad) they ejected a coach and a player for arguing a strike. The coach ran to the TD and the TD put them both back in the game.  Now, first off that should NEVER be done, but what it does is it sends a loud and crystal clear signal that all behavior is acceptable--and this is what happens.

Now, in the above my son (at the time 19, and not sure how to handle the situation) and the other guy walked off the field, as the crowd cheered and waved goodbye!  This is what we have come to.

I know others may disagree but until we ALL stop putting up with nonsense we get what we deserve. Letting things go just creates a bigger problem for the next guy.  

My rule:   Until I can call time out and tell a coach how horrible he is (and trust me I have witnessed a lot of DUMB, head scratching sh^t) he isn't allowed to do it to me. 

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19 minutes ago, aaluck said:

This problem is getting nothing but worse.  I lay the blame on several factors but first and foremost tournament directors (TD). TDs are the reason I no longer do any baseball in the summer.  I now limit myself to HS/College where there are consequences to behavior.

I will not name names but what I have found is that these summer 'leagues' are nothing but money makers.  The people that run them let the coaches, players and fans act like idiots, because they want the money. Entry fees (teams), entry fees (parents), concessions, shirts, etc. When coaches, fans and players are not held accountable for their actions and removed it escalates to violence. 

I have told this before but here is a prime example: My son and an SEC (high level games) official were doing a 18u tournament. Kids, fans and coaches cursing them (that's not a fun%^& strike, your fu^&$$ horrible) on and on. In the bottom of the first (yeah that bad) they ejected a coach and a player for arguing a strike. The coach ran to the TD and the TD put them both back in the game.  Now, first off that should NEVER be done, but what it does is it sends a loud and crystal clear signal that all behavior is acceptable--and this is what happens.

Now, in the above my son (at the time 19, and not sure how to handle the situation) and the other guy walked off the field, as the crowd cheered and waved goodbye!  This is what we have come to.

I know others may disagree but until we ALL stop putting up with nonsense we get what we deserve. Letting things go just creates a bigger problem for the next guy.  

My rule:   Until I can call time out and tell a coach how horrible he is (and trust me I have witnessed a lot of DUMB, head scratching sh^t) he isn't allowed to do it to me. 

I’d have walked off the field the minute the TD re-entered them

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Avoid having anything on your vehicle that identifies you as an umpire.
~Dawg

You mean like a partner I had this year who’s license plate said……

You do you, bro. But I probably won’t broadcast that SH*#.


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5 hours ago, LRZ said:

Refusing to work solo at lower levels is simply not feasible here, because of the dire shortage of umpires; virtually all small-field games would go un-umpired. Besides, most of these games--not all, but most--are played without much hassle from coaches and parents.

However, umpires should boycott venues or events where abuse is chronic.

I don't see the downside to this.

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All Sports Officials need to stop ALLOWING THEMSELVES to become victims of abuse and assaults. PERIOD. To hell with "we're supposed to be professionals" when the circumstances dictate otherwise. 😞

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10 hours ago, LRZ said:

Refusing to work solo at lower levels is simply not feasible here, because of the dire shortage of umpires; virtually all small-field games would go un-umpired. Besides, most of these games--not all, but most--are played without much hassle from coaches and parents.

However, umpires should boycott venues or events where abuse is chronic.

I worked 6 varsity games solo this season because of lack of umpires.  And I just worked 3 dh's by myself in a collegiate summer league because of lack of umpires.  Have to say I don't blame guys for not working in the middle of the day here as it was 110 to 115 degrees on a turf field.  I did the dh's from behind the mound.

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On 7/21/2021 at 2:29 PM, beerguy55 said:

Or one of THEM would be dead.

First rule of any rescue operation - don't turn one victim into two.  Or one of them kills the the combatant by mistake.  Were any of those people trained to handle a dangerous person who was obviously capable enough to hold his own with a trained and fit police officer?      We'd all like to think they could have helped, we never consider what could happen if it goes sideways.  How would that young cop feel if one of the people trying to help took a shiv in the heart.  I don't know what I'd do in that situation.   I hope I would or could help...but when the chips are down, who knows?

It's one thing to step in and help someone who's obviously overmatched and is a victim of an assault or worse (and even that has the same fundamental risks to consider) - it's another to step into to a situation where one of the people is a cop, doing his duty, trained to handle it.

I won't fault anyone for not stepping in.   Otherwise, are we going to blame the videographers for George Floyd's death too?

We are weird when it comes to altruism - it's all great when it's someone else risking themselves for the greater good.   Headline One - Guy drowns in river..."why didn't anyone try to rescue him."  Headline Two - Guy drowns in river, three others missing after trying to rescue him..."oh, my, how tragic.  But what heroes they were."  

It must suck to go through life scared of "what if's". Sincerely hope if I'm on the side of the road fighting for my life, you're not the guy driving by. If your kid wife or family member is drowning, I'm going in the water, no matter the consequences, to try to save your the life of your loved one. If your wife child or loved one is being attacked, I'm helping however I can, no matter the consequences. Just my 2 cents...

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4 hours ago, mark38090 said:

It must suck to go through life scared of "what if's". Sincerely hope if I'm on the side of the road fighting for my life, you're not the guy driving by. If your kid wife or family member is drowning, I'm going in the water, no matter the consequences, to try to save your the life of your loved one. If your wife child or loved one is being attacked, I'm helping however I can, no matter the consequences. Just my 2 cents...

What-ifs allow us to make decisions. Your concept of "I'm joining in, consequences be damned" is what escalates things. You are allowing no ability to formulate a solution based on facts and assumptions--sometimes, there's just not a good one. There's a reason the first line of the Hippocratic Oath is what it says. It's why we are trained not to treat or evacuate wounded in combat unless it is safe for us to do so.

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22 hours ago, LRZ said:

Refusing to work solo at lower levels is simply not feasible here, because of the dire shortage of umpires; virtually all small-field games would go un-umpired. Besides, most of these games--not all, but most--are played without much hassle from coaches and parents.

However, umpires should boycott venues or events where abuse is chronic.

 

If you have a local league that you can work with one guy and never have a problem, all the more power to you.

In general, my thought is it sounds like a problem when you can't find umpires.  It sounds like a problem when the number one reason is 'umpires are sick of the treatment they get.'  Sounds like a problem that wasn't caused by umpires.  Sounds like a problem that isn't an umpire's problem.  Sounds like a problem that somebody should work on a good solution to.

As umpires, our contributions to that solution are:

  1. to not put up with the treatment (from fans to TDs) ... this means things that may seem small like speaking up to combat the abusive culture against umpires.  On another forum I read, a member posted about the Olympic softball games, but his thread title was something like "Team USA and an umpire who doesn't know what an out is."  His actual post wasn't hostile at all, but the title was.  Speak up when you see these unconscious/subconscious microaggressions.  The person may not even know they are doing it, so be kind, but call attention to it as a major part of the problem.
  2. to promote/demand better working conditions.  That means not encouraging the expectation that "We pissed off six other guys, so you should come put up with us by yourself."  Yeah, that means you may turn down a game check or that Little Johnny has to have a game rescheduled because the adults can't behave.  It also means that associations (and I see this more in softball as baseball is not as top-down here) may have to stop sanctioning 6 tournaments all within a hundred-mile radius of one another on the same weekend.
  3. then, we as umpires can begin rebuilding the umpire pool.

In one of my previous lives I was a "clean up guy" for many retail establishments.  When a manager and company had run a store into the ground, they sent me in to fix it.  At one particular grueling assignment (a video store), one of the recommendations I made to upper management was: you need to get rid of 1/3rd to 1/2 of your customers at this store.  This recommendation was based in several factors, but chief among them was that a significant portion of the customer base was toxic.  They came into the store and treated the staff and other customers like dirt, and this culture had taken hold and was growing like a cancer.  Upper management had a cow ... "but, paying customers!"  You know what happens when you cut that cancer out?  The rest of your customer base flourishes.  They spend more money.  They have a better experience.  They promote your business.

As I said, upper management had a cow ... we did it ... it worked.  Shed the toxic customer base to improve the experience for the rest.  I would bet for every tournament where the TD "lets a coach back in" or doesn't take care of a fan situation because he doesn't want to lose their money, he is losing money from at least one other team who won't be back because of how the tournament went.

I used to have that same romantic sense of duty that all games must be umpired "for the kids!"  Fact is ... no ... no they don't.  It isn't feasible to continue to expect people to go out in dangerous (referring to multiple games played in extreme weather conditions) and hostile (referring to "those" games) working conditions and claim it is "for the kids" when it is not about the kids ... it's about money (and we aren't even really balking much about our end of that).  If it was about the kids, we wouldn't be having this conversation EVER.

 

 

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13 hours ago, umpstu said:

I worked 6 varsity games solo this season because of lack of umpires.  And I just worked 3 dh's by myself in a collegiate summer league because of lack of umpires.  Have to say I don't blame guys for not working in the middle of the day here as it was 110 to 115 degrees on a turf field.  I did the dh's from behind the mound.

 

I certainly would not expect that at that level.

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20 hours ago, SH0102 said:

I’d have walked off the field the minute the TD re-entered them

Absolutely, like you, I would have and they did. BUT here is the flip side. There are folks out there doing this to provide food for their family. They don't have the 'ability' to just go home and this is why these TD need to do their jobs as well.  When they fail to do right by the umpires it puts everyone in a bad situation.

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