Proper mechanic for PU on uncaught 3rd strike

[rhinolith]

What is the proper signal and words (if any) to show an uncaught 3rd strike situation?

Thank you for your advice.

[SeeingEyeDog]

Mine is a double half safe signal with my right arm only and the verbalization, "No catch! No catch!"

Last summer, I worked with a partner who was an MiLB guy and he did right arm extended out, index finger pointing down (but NOT pointing at the baseball!) and the verbalization, "Ball is down! Ball is down!"

This is one of those mechanics that vary greatly. Feel free to not trust randos in the Interwebz and check with your association's director of training or a trusted, senior mentor to get you dialed in on what your association deems "appropriate".

~Dawg

[Kevin_K]

 

 

[ArchAngel72]

It really depends on what level of play you are talking about 

 

Mine for LL is right arm out level with the ground hand in a fist

That is the LL signal 

[noumpere]

8 hours ago, rhinolith said:

What is the proper signal and words (if any) to show an uncaught 3rd strike situation?

Thank you for your advice.

Proper is whatever you assigner wants.

But, as long as you signal and verbalize it, you're way ahead of most umpires.

[Catch18]

I will give a strike signal on the pitch/swing (I’m a point to the side guy) then as I’m coming out from behind I’ll give a safe signal (probably hold for 3-4 steps) and say no catch (just once). Have never had any ambiguity or mistakes/misunderstanding with that. If it’s the oddball U3K looking, substitute my punchout for strike point and continue.


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[ousafe]

4 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Mine for LL is right arm out level with the ground hand in a fist

@ArchAngel72You want a point to the side (not a fist) for LL: https://www.littleleague.org/university/articles/uncaught-third-strike-no-catch/

[LRZ]

Robots. 

[ArchAngel72]

Correct yes point What is odd is Bristol taught us a clenched fist "shrug"

43 minutes ago, ousafe said:

@ArchAngel72You want a point to the side (not a fist) for LL: https://www.littleleague.org/university/articles/uncaught-third-strike-no-catch/

 

On 5/4/2021 at 10:46 AM, ArchAngel72 said:

LL mechanic

 

The “Uncaught Third Strike” Mechanic is used when the batter becomes a runner due to the third strike not being caught with two outs or first base unoccupied. If you have not watched the “Safe” and “Out” Mechanic videos, you may want to do so prior to watching this video. The “Uncaught Third Strike” Mechanic is used by the Plate Umpire. In this video, we will break down the “Uncaught Third Strike” Mechanic.

1)On a pitch that is strike three and is determined to have not been caught, the signal used to indicate the third strike is by pointing with the right hand and arm out to the side using no voice. Using this signal mitigates any confusion that could occur from players misconstruing the standard strike mechanic as being an “out” call. At that point, four possibilities could occur.

2)If the ball gets away from the catcher and it is obvious to everyone that the pitch was not caught, no additional action is needed.

3)If the pitch is short-hopped by the catcher, and the batter-runner attempts to advance with no tag attempt, use the “Safe” mechanic and verbalize, “no catch”.

4)If the batter-runner attempts to advance and a tag attempt misses, use the “Safe” mechanic and verbalize, “no tag”.

5)If the batter-runner is tagged immediately, use the “out” mechanic.

 

 

So here what I was instructed from LL class in Bristol was 1 and 2.  We never were at that point to the best of my recollection informed about 3.  4, and 5 are no brainers and not really part of this mechanic to me as they are another actual call. Tag out or missed tag.

 

[rhinolith]

Everyone: thank you for the advice. It’s very helpful. 

[Recontra]

Personally, I don't like the LL mechanic where the PU goes 1st baseline extended. I prefer to point to the right up the 1st baseline, give an audible unless everyone is already shouting it, clear the catcher to the right and move a couple steps toward 1st base. This puts me in perfect position to (actually) see any tag on the BR's backside as he's running toward 1st. If I move 1st baseline extended (like the LL video), I'm straight lined on any tag and might be just guessing that it looked like there was a tag. Then once BR has cleared the plate area, eyes go toward possible running lane interference, and I'll often move back to or toward the line (staying out of the catcher's way). Moving toward 1st lets me actually see any tag. Just my two cents picked up from a great partner.

[The Man in Blue]

Strike three, don’t say the batter is out and don’t signal him out.

 

We strive for signal uniformity, yet this unnecessary signal is all over the map like Thelma and Louise giving Harold and Kumar a tour of a Family Circus cartoon.

It amazes how the game ever survived all those years with no “run dummy” signal.

[noumpere]

7 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

It amazes how the game ever survived all those years with no “run dummy” signal.

Like most mechanics changes, this one changed because of some high-profile controversy.  I forget all the details,. but in some playoff game 15 or so years ago, there was a K that might or might not have hit the ground.  Someone ran (or didn't), someone played (or didn't) or someone made an error -- and so the mechanics got changed so both sides knew (at least in theory) what the call was so they could properly react.

 

Honestly, I think it's a good change -- we signal catch or not on other batted and thrown balls (when it's not obvious) -- why wouldn't we do so on a pitch?

[The Man in Blue]

3 hours ago, noumpere said:

Like most mechanics changes, this one changed because of some high-profile controversy.  I forget all the details,. but in some playoff game 15 or so years ago, there was a K that might or might not have hit the ground.  Someone ran (or didn't), someone played (or didn't) or someone made an error -- and so the mechanics got changed so both sides knew (at least in theory) what the call was so they could properly react.

 

Honestly, I think it's a good change -- we signal catch or not on other batted and thrown balls (when it's not obvious) -- why wouldn't we do so on a pitch?

 

It was such a high-profile controversy ... that ... it ... uh ... when was it?  Where was it?  😉

In other words, EVERYTHING is a high-profile controversy until the next thing happens.  We MUST react swiftly, strongly, and with auth ... oooh ... look at that bullsh!t!  [redirects outrage]

(Not a dig at you @noumpere, I promise!)

I don't object to there being a signal ... but the "Run Dummy Wars" over which mechanic needs to be fixed.  Honestly, I don't even care if each code has a different mechanic.  My issue is that many codes have NO mechanic while umpires insist on using one.  If there is NO prescribed mechanic, don't do it.

[Jimurray]

8 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

It was such a high-profile controversy ... that ... it ... uh ... when was it?  Where was it?  😉

In other words, EVERYTHING is a high-profile controversy until the next thing happens.  We MUST react swiftly, strongly, and with auth ... oooh ... look at that bullsh!t!  [redirects outrage]

(Not a dig at you @noumpere, I promise!)

I don't object to there being a signal ... but the "Run Dummy Wars" over which mechanic needs to be fixed.  Honestly, I don't even care if each code has a different mechanic.  My issue is that many codes have NO mechanic while umpires insist on using one.  If there is NO prescribed mechanic, don't do it.

This engendered the right arm point: ALCS Gm2: A.J. reaches first on dropped third strike - YouTube

[The Man in Blue]

I could be wrong ... but it seems the arm point (or the "Run Dummy Signal") was a huge part of the problem.

The announcers, the coaches, and the players incorrectly took the arm point as the strike call and the hammer as the out.  When the batter saw the umpire giving the "Run Dummy Signal", he took off.

Again, if there is going to be a uniform signal in a code, there needs to be a uniform signal in a code.  You can't have some umpires doing this and some doing that.

[agdz59]

In my short time doing this, I've been exposed to three different mechanics. Right hand fist while holding your right arm extended toward ground. Right hand pointing to the ground, verbalize "strike" while giving the safe sign. 

Current association wants the later but I'll be damned it's hard to change from what I first learned (#1)

[humanbackstop19]

The verbal "NO CATCH" with a safe mechanic has never gone sour for me.  A quick glance to a partner (middle if 3 or 4 person) to check if they have closed or open fist (always pregame it), then sell the crap out of it one way or the other.  

[spiritump]

Come up with a crisp safe signal

 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, spiritump said:

Come up with a crisp safe signal

 

The problem is you may be giving a safe signal while the catcher is tagging the batter. I think that's why the right arm point was adopted.

[SeeingEyeDog]

2 hours ago, Jimurray said:

The problem is you may be giving a safe signal while the catcher is tagging the batter. I think that's why the right arm point was adopted.

So, we'll want to come up there a little bigger and louder with our out call if we have a tag following the U3K...no biggie.

~Dawg

[Catch18]

The verbal "NO CATCH" with a safe mechanic has never gone sour for me.  A quick glance to a partner (middle if 3 or 4 person) to check if they have closed or open fist (always pregame it), then sell the crap out of it one way or the other.  

Wouldn’t a partner on the wing (3 & 4 man) have a better view?


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[Biscuit]

The way it's taught at pro school is to 

1) point to the right, snapping the hand from chest in a sideways motion (almost like a half safe) 

2) Verbalize "no catch"

3) Take a step or two to your right, so you can see a potential quick tag by the catcher. 

4) If the runner gets out of the immediate vicinity of the catcher (approximately the dirt circle, if you have one), step back to and straddle the line, while giving a safe mechanic.

5) Help with pulled foot, swipe tag, and RLI as you would on a play on the infield. 

If the ball gets past the catcher, you may have to modify positioning such as to not be in the throwing lane. This takes a little practice to get right, but if you nail it, it looks really good.

 

 

 

[humanbackstop19]

On 7/30/2021 at 9:07 PM, Catch18 said:

Wouldn’t a partner on the wing (3 & 4 man) have a better view?


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I guess it depends who you pregame that with, but I would agree, the open wing (if available should get a better look).  My mind still thinks instinctively towards 2-person mechanics.  

[Mr Ump]

I use a half safe signal pointed to the right and no verbal. I pregame the no verbal with my catchers. “If you don’t hear me on dropped third you need to make a play. I either didn’t see you catch it or I don’t think you caught it. If you do catch it come up and show everyone.” If I got a catch I come up big and loud to stop the action. 

I have had many catchers (all ages) thank me for giving them direction on how I am gonna officiate that play. Remember they can’t see our signal. This method altho different than what we were taught at school works for me.