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Coach arguing with spectator


Guest CRC

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Guest CRC

LL game. 

The manager is having trouble with a spectator who is known to him.  At some point voices get loud, including swearing, and the coach is physically advancing toward the spectator while yelling at him.  The opposing team's manager intervenes and keeps them apart.  Cooler heads prevail and the spectator leaves while the coach returns to the dugout.

Should the umpire do anything?  A warning or ejection for the coach?  There are no league representatives on site.  The only league personnel present are the coaching staffs and the umpire.

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An important life lesson I have learned along the way is that when I go looking for trouble I find it...... every time.

When I umpire, my primary concern is what occurs within the confines of the playing field. This seems as though it falls into the "Not my monkeys, not my circus" category. 

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Little league game and there is yelling and swearing from a participant with the crowd? I'm stopping that game until the board member on duty (regular season) or TD (tournament) takes care of the problem. If the coach is swearing at a little league game he has just informed me that he doesn't want to be there anymore. If there are no league reps present, I'm pretty sure I can get the cooperation of the other coaches that the game will not continue until the coach and spectator leave. And yes, definitely going to be a pretty detailed report to the board about what I saw/heard. 

 

Matt

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Was it one of his fans or an opposing fan?  Not that it matters, I'm just curious.

I was part of a conversation during a tournament where the question came up about ejecting a coach for the treatment of his own players.  The conclusion we came to: sportsmanship is across the board.  If it is that bad, "he gots to go."

I'm not sure about this situation though.  Maybe talk to the coach and remind him of his obligations to the team?  Not enough detail for me to say that with any confidence that that would have defused it any, though. 

It sucks that the organization was not there to provide support the way it should be.  You should not have to deal with fans.

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Guest CRC

The fan was one of the coach's own and they know each other well.  At the time of the incident, it was obvious that the fan was one of his own, but to most observers it was not obvious that the two knew each other well.

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Guest CRC
1 hour ago, ArchAngel72 said:

LL rules if the coach swore doesn't matter who at or what it was if he was in the capacity of being a coach.

I would bounce him from the game right there.  LL does not tolerate foul language around kids.

 

Which rule?  

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18 minutes ago, Guest CRC said:

Which rule?  

9.01 D

(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.

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16 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

An important life lesson I have learned along the way is that when I go looking for trouble I find it...... every time.

When I umpire, my primary concern is what occurs within the confines of the playing field. This seems as though it falls into the "Not my monkeys, not my circus" category. 

The coach IS your monkey.   If he wants to leave the dugout to engage a spectator (and cause a disturbance/distraction noticeable on the field) your appropriate action is to invite him to go all the way to the parking lot.

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10 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

The coach IS your monkey.   If he wants to leave the dugout to engage a spectator (and cause a disturbance/distraction noticeable on the field) your appropriate action is to invite him to go all the way to the parking lot.

On this we will agree to disagree. There are innumerable suggestions on this board about staying out of dugouts and not talking to the fence. This falls into both.

17 hours ago, Guest CRC said:

The opposing team's manager intervenes and keeps them apart.  Cooler heads prevail and the spectator leaves while the coach returns to the dugout.

Seems like the poo throwing contest was resolved sans any umpire intervention. 

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15 minutes ago, Kevin_K said:

On this we will agree to disagree. There are innumerable suggestions on this board about staying out of dugouts and not talking to the fence. This falls into both.

Seems like the poo throwing contest was resolved sans any umpire intervention. 

So, where does that leave @ArchAngel72's rule citation above?

~Dawg

 

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8 minutes ago, Kevin_K said:

Simply because you can is not a directive that you must.

 

As PU and the only umpire on the field typically in LL, if its on the field its under your direction and with LL specifically. No way 95% of all parents attending are ok with a coach using foul language in front of their kids.  Recall I am speaking about 8-12 yr olds.

So yeah I'm gonna be that hard ass that says NOPE not on my field. 

I don't care if they get their hair in a muss about it, aint happening, wont tolerate it.  If its not allowed in Bristol or Williamsport, Its not gonna happen at my field

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I don't think I would tolerate this type of behavior on any of the levels I do, especially LL. I'm fine with however you want to handle this situation, either ignoring, warning, ejection, etc.

But a coach coming out of the dugouts and yelling dropping obscenities to a spectator, no way am I letting that go. I'm going to have to intervene in some way. I'm certainly not going to ignore it.

Situations like that often have a way of spiraling out of control. It could also reappear later in the game, too. I'd rather deal with it right away and perhaps prevent some future shenanigans. I think by dealing with it, you send a message to all the spectators, players and coaches that this type of behavior will not be allowed. IMO, by not dealing with it, you may give off the appearance that this behavior is tolerated. Not a message I want to send.

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9 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

9.01 D

(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field. If an umpire disqualifies a player while a play is in progress, the disqualification shall not take effect until no further action is possible in that play.

And from the LL Rules Instruction Manual following Rule 9.01(d)...

INSTRUCTOR'S COMMENTS: Keep in mind that the unsportsmanlike conduct or language could exist toward an umpire, the opposing team, and even a member of the same team. Do not allow bad behavior to continue, even if it's not directed at you.

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I agree we don’t engage with other side of the fence, and when a coach argues with someone in his dugout or fan, I’m not likely to intervene.

But if the arguing is prolonged, profane, and impossible to ignore, I’m likely to try once to put a stop to it, and will eject the coach if it can’t be handled.

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16 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

will eject the coach if it can’t be handled

I'm curious: if it reaches that point, why take this route, instead of having site administration/tournament director remove the obstreperous spectator?

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Just now, LRZ said:

I'm curious: if it reaches that point, why take this route, instead of having site administration/tournament director remove the obstreperous spectator?

Well, since the OP stated there were no tournament or league personnel there, this isn’t really an option…

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I'm ending the coaches participation right there. The optics to start with are horrible:

  • 8-12 year old kids watching 2 grown men barking at each other through the fence, hurling obesities at each other. 
  • Parents and fans of said 8-12 year old kids watching this with a higher likelihood of also becoming participants in the above demonstration and thus having the whole thing spin out of control.
  • Your job as defined in the rule book is to be the SOLE representative on the field of Little League International. (9.01(b)) 
    • If you are representing LL as an organization, how can you then allow the above to continue and not intervene?  
    • Sorry, but if your there to officiate the LL game, then the whole rule book comes with the job, not just the parts you want to enforce. 

 

As the umpire you have the following rule support to remove the coach, which in my opinion, should have occurred. 

3.09 Players, managers and coaches of the participating teams shall not address, or mingle with spectators, nor sit in the stands during a game in which they are engaged....

9.01(b) Each umpire is the representative of the league and Little League International, and is authorized and required to enforce all of these rules. Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach, manager or league officer to do, or refrain from doing anything which affects the administering of these rules and to enforce the prescribed penalties.

(d) Each umpire has authority to disqualify any player, coach, manager or substitute for objecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct or language, and to eject such disqualified person from the playing field...

Regulation XIV - a. The actions, on or off the field, of players, managers, coaches, umpires and league officials must be above reproach. Any player, manager, coach, umpire or league representative who is involved in a verbal or physical altercation, or an incident of unsportsmanlike conduct, at the game site or any other Little League activity including through online or social media, is subject to disciplinary action by the local Board of Directors. 

 

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