Ejection

[Guest John]

Can someone explain to me how you can miss a belt high inside pitch by 6 inches then eject the scorekeeper sitting behind the plate for saying "that's literally inside the inside batters box". This was the first thing I said the entire game. I did not yell it. I said it just loud enough to hear so I would not be showing him up. He turns around and rips his mask off and points his finger at me as he walks to the backstop yelling not another word. I said "why?" Cause I didn't say anything worth a turn or a glance let alone him stopping the game mid at bat to yell at me. He then yells loudly to the coach "You need to put a lid on this kid". I am not a kid and he is not old enough to call me a kid so I said back "I am not a kid" he then throws me out. He then taunts me and waives. So evidently me questioning his judgement that I am a kid is now an ejectable offense. He escalated the whole situation and caused this whole thing. He got in my face. He was the one yelling. He was the one wrong. But of course there's no accountability for him.

Let it be known that I do not yell that often. I will say things quietly when bad calls happen because I know it happens. But I also am very nice when the umps do good and say thanks and good game, I know how hard the job is but I don't appreciate going to the ump show. There is no room for calls 6 inches inside or balls above his chin called a strike like in the first inning.

We have had him in the past and he has been fine. I haven't said anything to him before. Is he really just that sensitive?

Video: https://youtu.be/mx0rAAPnEcI

[maven]

18 minutes ago, Guest John said:

Can someone explain to me how you can miss a belt high inside pitch by 6 inches then eject the scorekeeper sitting behind the plate for saying "that's literally inside the inside batters box".

Yes: turn to the scorekeeper and say in a loud, clear, voice: "You're ejected."

Happy to help.

[Richvee]

Strap  on the gear, then you can call balls and strikes. Until then…..  

STFU and keep score. 

[SH0102]

Other than the “have fun” and “bye bye” comments , you were the one who was wrong and escalated the situation. The fact that you would say, “are you that soft” to an umpire tells me everything I need to know.

You should become a fan/parent, no reason a scorekeeper should ever be a part of the game like that.

And the pitch was not that far inside. The catcher set up so far outside that the umpire was completely exposed, hence why he had to reach back.

We call edge of inner chalk to inner chalk in D3 college, that pitch was similar spot, and it was 16u.

Maybe take a page out of coach’s attitude, he seemed like someone I’d want to umpire for

[Guest John]

2 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

Other than the “have fun” and “bye bye” comments , you were the one who was wrong and escalated the situation. The fact that you would say, “are you that soft” to an umpire tells me everything I need to know.

You should become a fan/parent, no reason a scorekeeper should ever be a part of the game like that.

And the pitch was not that far inside. The catcher set up so far outside that the umpire was completely exposed, hence why he had to reach back.

We call edge of inner chalk to inner chalk in D3 college, that pitch was similar spot, and it was 16u.

Maybe take a page out of coach’s attitude, he seemed like someone I’d want to umpire for

I was sitting directly behind the plate. I could see exactly where it was. It was inside the line. No questions asked. The are you that soft comment was in relation to him getting his feelings hurt because I criticized the call. Not him. I said nothing about him until he antagonized me. The coach has no spine. He doesn't even coach he is a babysitter

[Tborze]

29 minutes ago, Guest John said:

I was sitting directly behind the plate. I could see exactly where it was. It was inside the line. No questions asked. The are you that soft comment was in relation to him getting his feelings hurt because I criticized the call. Not him. I said nothing about him until he antagonized me. The coach has no spine. He doesn't even coach he is a babysitter

Your video doesn’t help your cause!! Scorekeeper or not, do as Richvee suggests. 
And, I love this part, he wasn’t going to throw you out until you confirmed you weren’t a KID!  
Some KIDS just don’t know when to STFU.  That’s a HINT. 

Hopefully we made you a better ADULT today!  

[JonnyCat]

After seeing the video, are you really getting that worked up over one strike call? As a scorekeeper, your job is to keep score and be quiet. You work for the game and the umpire. As a scorekeeper, you do not work for the coaches, teams, or players.

As one of my respected colleagues replied, why don't you strap on the gear and see how you do calling a game? Until then, continue to be a self absorbed crybaby over meaningless games and calls. You're one of the reasons why youth sports has seen a huge decline in officials.

No one comes to a game to hear your whiney ass complain about stupid sh!t.

[The Man in Blue]

I have typed and deleted several comments.  I have nothing nice to say, especially to the other side of the fence.

[SH0102]

38 minutes ago, Guest John said:

I was sitting directly behind the plate. I could see exactly where it was. It was inside the line. No questions asked. The are you that soft comment was in relation to him getting his feelings hurt because I criticized the call. Not him. I said nothing about him until he antagonized me. The coach has no spine. He doesn't even coach he is a babysitter

You came to an umpire site to criticize an umpire.  Now, when one of us is out of line, many here are willing to call it out.

You never should have said what you said when acting as scorekeeper.  Once you did, he gave you a chance to be quiet, you continued to argue that you should be allowed to say stuff.

The pitch was NOT inside the chalk line, not at all. Even if it was, I’m guessing this was a rec game (one umpire on 16u game should not happen). So who the F*** cares.

The best umpires work the best games and games that pay well.  Hire one ump for a 90’ field, and then expect greatness? Get the F out of here

[Guest Nate]

This site is to ask questions on rules or any weird situation that may have happened in a game you saw, or umpired. This is not a site to get on and critique and criticize another umpire. If you are at the game and have questions on something the umpire did, that’s fine to ask, but accusing them of a call that was not wrong (or if it was, not by much) is not acceptable. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

2 hours ago, Richvee said:

Strap  on the gear, then you can call balls and strikes. Until then…..  

STFU and keep score. 

...and don't ever think about rollin' up in here again with something like this, OP.

~Dawg

 

[UMP45]

oAfter reading your OP and then your responses to people calling you out, I've come to the conclusion you are a SH*# stirrer. If you ever played you were the type who would start crap and then when was called out on it you would say I didn't do anything. Whether you realize it or not you had 2 strikes against you from the start. Tennis shoes and a clipboard. You are on a very, very, very short leash.

[Velho]

That’s a legitimate JV strike all day, every day.

Official scorekeepers give up their rights to cheer. That’s a nonpartisan role.

[Catch18]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Man in Blue]

6 hours ago, SH0102 said:

Maybe take a page out of coach’s attitude, he seemed like someone I’d want to umpire for

This I love ... That coach had a fantastic demeanor and attitude.  I would work his games any day.

 

In an effort to steer this back from the sh!tshow it was inevitably going to become ...  Question for everybody along the lines of these comments: How do you view the bookkeeper in relation to your game?

5 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

As a scorekeeper, your job is to keep score ... You work for the game and the umpire. As a scorekeeper, you do not work for the coaches, teams, or players.

 

17 minutes ago, Velho said:

Official scorekeepers give up their rights to cheer. That’s a nonpartisan role.

 

In theory I agree with @Velho IF we were talking about a league/tournament provided bookkeeper.  However, the vast majority of the time the bookkeeper is a team parent.  In that regard, I cannot expect them not to act as a fan of their team.  (Ideally, yes.  Realistically, no.)

On that same note ... I don't agree with @JonnyCat's statement "You work for the game and the umpire."  The bookkeeper/scorekeeper does not work for me and I want no part of having to oversee them.  There is a tangent conversation on another forum I frequent about umpires checking/not checking with the bookkeeper about the count. My stance is that a parent bookkeeper is NOT a part of my umpiring crew, so I am not going to take any action that furthers their fanciful idea that they are an official part of the game.

Here is another part of that that I take issue with -- YOU (bookkeeper) are also NOT a coach or a member of the team if you are sitting behind me.  You are a fan.  Do not sit behind me and scream about the count or because you think somebody is batting out of order.  YOU HAVE NO STANDING.   If you want to act as team personnel, YOU MUST BE IN THE DUGOUT.

[SeeingEyeDog]

@The Man in Blue, interesting query...

Low leverage game, I don't care if the home team (or anyone else) is keeping a book or not...plate keeps the count and is backed by the crew.

High leverage game, typically again plate and crew will manage the count...if we still have a question, we will go to the official score keeper. I have yet to do so.

~Dawg

[Velho]

18 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

In theory I agree with @Velho IF we were talking about a league/tournament provided bookkeeper.  However, the vast majority of the time the bookkeeper is a team parent.  In that regard, I cannot expect them not to act as a fan of their team.  (Ideally, yes.  Realistically, no.)

For brevity I kept my prior comment succinct.

if they are provided by the team AND are sitting in an official(ish) location, their behavior has to be moderated. Cheering of the “yea!” variety, sure. Crossing into guidance or direction (especially given their advantageous seat) - nope. My home LL fields have scorekeepers boxes right behind home plate. I regularly need to nicely ask folks to not coach from back there (and never have an issue thereafter). It’s a different level of expectedbehavior than being 10 feet to the other side but outside the scorers shed.

Scorekeepers sitting in the stands? No special standard (but are hopefully nice when we interact). 

[Catch18]

Can someone explain to me how you can miss

This is merely your opinion. The rest doesn’t matter. Thanks for stopping by. Next time try the scorekeepers’ or coaching forum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guest Nate]

11 hours ago, Velho said:

That’s a legitimate JV strike all day, every day.

Official scorekeepers give up their rights to cheer. That’s a nonpartisan role.

If you can find in the rule book where it says scorekeepers can’t cheer, I’ll write a complaint. That’s not a rule. I’m not saying what the scorekeeper did was right, because frankly it wasn’t, but he’s aloud to cheer

[LRZ]

First, the scorekeeper was not cheering, he was belittling the umpire. Second, most leagues and teams have a code of conduct for players, coaches, parents and spectators; that alone would support an early exit.

But, in any event, not everything is covered explicitly in the rulebook. What rule said the stadium organist--or a fan; ask Bob Davidson--can be ejected?

[SH0102]

1 hour ago, Guest Nate said:

If you can find in the rule book where it says scorekeepers can’t cheer, I’ll write a complaint. That’s not a rule. I’m not saying what the scorekeeper did was right, because frankly it wasn’t, but he’s aloud to cheer

I think the confusion was you missed the word "official" scorekeeper.  Some games, like college, MLB Draft League, etc, have "official scorekeepers" who have a job (paid) to keep score, keep the count, record of plays, etc.  These people are not allowed to cheer, alert one team when the other is batting out of order, etc.

In most younger games (HS and below), a parent keeps the score, nowadays usually on their phone, and of course, they are going to cheer, tell their coach when the other team bats out of order, etc, because the other team has their own parent keeping score who will do the same thing.

None of us know if the OP was an "official" scorer or just a parent/brother/teammate/fan who was helping out.  Either way, yelling at the ump was uncalled for, and while we generally can not eject a fan ourselves, we can eject a scorekeeper since they are part of the official personnel for a team.

[LRZ]

24 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

while we generally can not eject a fan ourselves

True, generally, but we can have game administration/coach remove the obstreperous fan.

[JonnyCat]

13 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

On that same note ... I don't agree with @JonnyCat's statement "You work for the game and the umpire."  The bookkeeper/scorekeeper does not work for me and I want no part of having to oversee them.  There is a tangent conversation on another forum I frequent about umpires checking/not checking with the bookkeeper about the count. My stance is that a parent bookkeeper is NOT a part of my umpiring crew, so I am not going to take any action that furthers their fanciful idea that they are an official part of the game.

Just to clarify my comments, perhaps a better phrase would be scorekeepers often work in tandem with umpires, particularly when you are acting in the capacity of an official scorekeeper, such as we would see in some leagues and in the LL all star tournament.

It appeared to me that the OP was acting in that capacity, so hence my remarks. An official scorekeeper does in fact work for the game and in tandem with the umpire. In games and tournaments where I'm required to report changes to the scorekeeper, verify pitch-count, etc, I expect the scorekeeper to be impartial. There are many times in these games that we do interact with a scorekeeper, and I try to keep a good rapport with them.

Many of my games, especially HS, the scorekeeper is usually an assistant in the dugout or a parent in the stands. I still will interact with them with changes, etc, but I don't consider them "official." Maybe they are, but I don't care. They are just another coach keeping a book and are treated as such.

I agree, a scorekeeper is not my employee or on my crew, but I do need to work with them.

[Tborze]

I think Little Johny has had enough!  Or, he ran to Facebook for some support.  

[Richvee]

48 minutes ago, Tborze said:

I think Little Johny has had enough!  Or, he ran to Facebook for some support.  

I think little Johnny needs to

learn how to act, speak to, and generally get along with people. 

[Tborze]

7 minutes ago, Richvee said:

I think little Johnny needs to

learn how to act, speak to, and generally get along with people. 

Maybe he's learning? Seems he took your advise and STFU