Proper Color Matching

[KayTup]

So, I have a Little League all star game to work tonight and I’d like to wear my new shirt… it’s the powder blue Smitty shirt with white and navy piping.

What is the best course of action for matching? Should I go with a navy hat and navy ball bags, or stick to my typical black hat and black bags? 
 

Tried to find pictures to help me decide what looks best, but no luck. Here’s a picture of the shirt with the other items. For some reason, the navy looks strange to me in the mirror.

[MadMax]

30 minutes ago, KayTup said:

new shirt… it’s the powder blue Smitty shirt with white and navy piping.

“New shirt”???

This isn’t a new shirt. Sure, you may have purchased it brand-new, but this shirt style is over 20 years old. It was (and has been) an “alternate derivative” of the traditional navy blue shirt w/ red & white piping. As such – and I hate to break it to ya – the proper trim color for it is… navy. 

That means navy ball bags and a navy hat should be worn. There are those of us who even hold that your mask should be navy (or grey, or silver), the pads should not be black, and the harness should be navy, too. But those are minor details that signify perfection (or pedantry, take your pick). 

Baseball – especially professional baseball – turned the corner on this sometime in the late 1990s with the institution of black. The traditional black shirt has two white pencil-stripes as piping on the collar and cuffs. With that established, what was to be its alternate? Why, the sky (light, or Columbia, or Carolina, or Polo) blue shirt, with black collar and cuffs, of course! 

Now, a veritable host of organizations continued with the navy shirt, citing various reasons such as “patriotism”, “identity” and “cost”. In fact, most states under the NFHS umbrella who stick with the navy shirt do so citing “cost”, because they have members who don’t want to be compelled to get a new shirt, or any of the secondary garments and accessories (jackets, hats, etc) that go with it! 

How stubborn, no? 

Around this same time, the NFHS commission realized that a significant number of umpires do both baseball and softball; as such, the navy shirt was codified into the rule sets for softball as well. Additionally, there was a group of umpires who desired to shape or guide softball into an identity that was decidedly and noticeably not baseball. As such, any attire kept to navy-based colors, in opposition to baseball’s black-based colors. Accordingly, “powder blue” (or baby blue) with white and navy trim became the predominant shirt in amateur softball, with many state associations codifying it as the de facto softball color for umpires… 

… thereby influencing navy hats, and navy ball bags… 

… but doesn’t explain why (most) masks, belts, and shoes are black (still). Hmmmm.  

And don’t get me started on why softball just cannot (or will not) let go of heather grey pants in favor of charcoal!!!

Looks like all-navy is on the card tonight. 
 

————

PS - This will hopefully prompt you to get & use black, henceforth. 

[The Man in Blue]

Easy answer …

Hat and ball bags match the piping or the primary shirt color.

If the piping is navy, hat and ball bags are navy.  If the piping is black, hat and ball bags are black.

NEVER wear black hat and ball bags with that shirt!

[LRZ]

KayTup, I had such high hopes for you! Dashed on the shoals of Color Compulsion!

[Aging_Arbiter]

2 hours ago, MadMax said:

Looks like all-navy is on the card tonight. 

GO NAVY!   BEAT ARMY!...............oh..........wrong season.   

[KayTup]

3 hours ago, MadMax said:

“New shirt”???

This isn’t a new shirt. Sure, you may have purchased it brand-new, but this shirt style is over 20 years old. It was (and has been) an “alternate derivative” of the traditional navy blue shirt w/ red & white piping. As such – and I hate to break it to ya – the proper trim color for it is… navy. 

That means navy ball bags and a navy hat should be worn. There are those of us who even hold that your mask should be navy (or grey, or silver), the pads should not be black, and the harness should be navy, too. But those are minor details that signify perfection (or pedantry, take your pick). 

Baseball – especially professional baseball – turned the corner on this sometime in the late 1990s with the institution of black. The traditional black shirt has two white pencil-stripes as piping on the collar and cuffs. With that established, what was to be its alternate? Why, the sky (light, or Columbia, or Carolina, or Polo) blue shirt, with black collar and cuffs, of course! 

Now, a veritable host of organizations continued with the navy shirt, citing various reasons such as “patriotism”, “identity” and “cost”. In fact, most states under the NFHS umbrella who stick with the navy shirt do so citing “cost”, because they have members who don’t want to be compelled to get a new shirt, or any of the secondary garments and accessories (jackets, hats, etc) that go with it! 

How stubborn, no? 

Around this same time, the NFHS commission realized that a significant number of umpires do both baseball and softball; as such, the navy shirt was codified into the rule sets for softball as well. Additionally, there was a group of umpires who desired to shape or guide softball into an identity that was decidedly and noticeably not baseball. As such, any attire kept to navy-based colors, in opposition to baseball’s black-based colors. Accordingly, “powder blue” (or baby blue) with white and navy trim became the predominant shirt in amateur softball, with many state associations codifying it as the de facto softball color for umpires… 

… thereby influencing navy hats, and navy ball bags… 

… but doesn’t explain why (most) masks, belts, and shoes are black (still). Hmmmm.  

And don’t get me started on why softball just cannot (or will not) let go of heather grey pants in favor of charcoal!!!

Looks like all-navy is on the card tonight. 
 

————

PS - This will hopefully prompt you to get & use black, henceforth. 

I do indeed have black! It’s my favorite shirt, just wanted to switch it up tonight. I would much rather have simplified things and bought myself a powder blue shirt with a black collar (I believe smitty calls this their “pro” style blue shirt) but my partner insisted on getting the powder with the navy stripe.

 

Either way, I did indeed end up going with a navy hat and ball bags, and it looked much sharper than I thought it would!

[KayTup]

2 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Easy answer …

Hat and ball bags match the piping or the primary shirt color.

If the piping is navy, hat and ball bags are navy.  If the piping is black, hat and ball bags are black.

NEVER wear black hat and ball bags with that shirt!

That’s what I thought! Thanks for confirming my thoughts, I did end up going with the navy look. I had heard to match with the piping, but I had also heard so many people shunning the use of the navy ball bag.

[KayTup]

1 hour ago, LRZ said:

KatTup, I had such high hopes for you! Dashed on the shoals of Color Compulsion!

I’ve seen some members here declare it a sin to even consider purchasing navy blue ball bags… I guess you can’t make friends without making a few enemies! 😂

[The Man in Blue]

@MadMax … NFHS Softball has not accepted the navy shirt as of 2020.  Some state associations may have.

 

I had never heard that about a navy mask/harness.  Not sure I have ever seen one (beyond a website).

 

As for why “they” don’t let go of their color … why don’t “we” let go of ours?  I get such a kick out of baseball umpires demanding another sport adopt their practices.  

Honestly, not many places seem to care much about the pants color anymore.  Seems like most pants are no longer actual heather or charcoal anyway … just lighter grey or darker grey.

[The Man in Blue]

46 minutes ago, KayTup said:

I’ve seen some members here declare it a sin to even consider purchasing navy blue ball bags… I guess you can’t make friends without making a few enemies! 😂

As long as you wear it with the appropriate shirt, why wouldn’t you?  What did they wear with their navy shirts, black?

There are still just a lot of old bitter umpires who rebel against anything navy for no practical reason.

 

Now … those heather or charcoal ball bags, THOSE are a sin.  The Swiss army ball bags, THOSE are a sin.

For what it is worth, I highly recommend these: https://www.ump-attire.com/Products/S383/Smitty-Deluxe-XL-Expandable-Umpire-Ball-Bag

[KayTup]

3 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

As long as you wear it with the appropriate shirt, why wouldn’t you?  What did they wear with their navy shirts, black?

There are still just a lot of old bitter umpires who rebel against anything navy for no practical reason.

 

Now … those heather or charcoal ball bags, THOSE are a sin.  The Swiss army ball bags, THOSE are a sin.

For what it is worth, I highly recommend these: https://www.ump-attire.com/Products/S383/Smitty-Deluxe-XL-Expandable-Umpire-Ball-Bag

Those Smitty XLs look really nice! I have a black and navy pair of Adams bags right now, they work just fine for me right now.

Personally, I liked the navy look… but charcoal or heather….. my god why would anyone do that 😣

[MadMax]

19 hours ago, KayTup said:

my partner insisted on getting the powder with the navy stripe.

Your partner needs help. 

19 hours ago, KayTup said:

I’ve seen some members here declare it a sin to even consider purchasing navy blue ball bags…

It’s not a sin to purchase navy ball bags. It’s a sin to purchase navy ball bags and use them with black and other black-trimmed shirts. 

It looks so lame. It’s one thing to have a black mask, black harness, a black belt, black shoes and use a navy shirt; we understand the limitations of working for/within an association that (still) hasn’t modernized. As such, most new ball bags are black. But, if you’re purchasing new bags in navy, for use with black-trimmed shirts, you have to do some searching, and it means you’re making a conscious decision to look… odd. 

Only one current-day MLB umpire wears (or has worn) navy ball bags with the black-trimmed shirts, and that’s Fieldin Culbreath. In his (unique) case, his wife makes them. 

18 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

There are still just a lot of old bitter umpires who rebel against anything navy for no practical reason.

There are still just a lot of old bitter umpires who rebel against anything black for the most inane of reasons. 

18 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

The Swiss army ball bags, THOSE are a sin.

The “gardener’s bags”, that often come in “umpire starter kits”? Yup. Agreed. Gross 🤮. (to quote @Stk004)

18 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I had never heard that about a navy mask/harness.  Not sure I have ever seen one (beyond a website).

@Thunderheads and @wolfe_man can vouch for this. We each have “navy rigs”. 

18 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Honestly, not many places seem to care much about the pants color anymore.

By posting that NFHS Softball citation, you just contradicted yourself. NFHS Softball directs that “the proper uniform for an umpire consists of… heather grey or navy blue slacks…” It would seem that NFHS Softball does care. And it’s this pedantic caring that really complicates things for all of us, from manufacturers to retailers to customers (us umpires). @JimKirk wrote an extensive article about this, and how much of a challenging mess it makes for him and his colleagues. I’ll supplement that by saying that us, as customers, are frustrated because… if we do both bat sports – or want to – why do we have to go out and get all those different pants and other accessories? 

I would dare argue, too, that one of the things dissuading women from more involvement in baseball’s umpiring ranks is the lack of properly fit uniforms and gear, especially pants (and plate shoes, @Tksjewelry). No manufacturers are going to step forward and produce a whole line of women-fit umpire pants in charcoal when softball is going to be so stubborn and refuse to even acknowledge them, instead directing the opposite! 
———————

PS - For the record, I’m not against navy, or just about* any other color. Instead, I’m against you telling me – especially in a formal document (ie. Rules) – that I have to use a specific color or style… that you aren’t providing, but instead expecting me to purchase. 

[KayTup]

10 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Your partner needs help. 

Yes. Yes he does. I told him we should go with the black collar, he replied saying it was too late. He bought the first shirt he saw.

Poor guy.

[ArchAngel72]

22 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

As long as you wear it with the appropriate shirt, why wouldn’t you?  What did they wear with their navy shirts, black?

There are still just a lot of old bitter umpires who rebel against anything navy for no practical reason.

 

Now … those heather or charcoal ball bags, THOSE are a sin.  The Swiss army ball bags, THOSE are a sin.

For what it is worth, I highly recommend these: https://www.ump-attire.com/Products/S383/Smitty-Deluxe-XL-Expandable-Umpire-Ball-Bag

Well call me a sinner than. 

[Catch18]

[mention=2599]MadMax[/mention] … NFHS Softball has not accepted the navy shirt as of 2020.  Some state associations may have.

 
If I asked a non-umpire to write a technical description of a 1960s umpire uniform, this would get an A.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FranklinT]

On 7/6/2021 at 9:27 PM, The Man in Blue said:

@MadMax … NFHS Softball has not accepted the navy shirt as of 2020.  Some state associations may have.

 

I had never heard that about a navy mask/harness.  Not sure I have ever seen one (beyond a website).

 

As for why “they” don’t let go of their color … why don’t “we” let go of ours?  I get such a kick out of baseball umpires demanding another sport adopt their practices.  

Honestly, not many places seem to care much about the pants color anymore.  Seems like most pants are no longer actual heather or charcoal anyway … just lighter grey or darker grey.

Oh lord….pullover knit sweater.

Anybody else remember +POS selling sweaters 15-20 years ago?

[umpstu]

8 minutes ago, FranklinT said:

Oh lord….pullover knit sweater.

Anybody else remember +POS selling sweaters 15-20 years ago?

I had one of their powder blue turtle neck sweaters.  Very sharp.  Man, +POS used to be such a great place to get your umpire needs.

 

[Replacematt]

It's not piping.

The only shirts that have had piping are the ones with the thin contrasting vertical color and half-trimmed sleeves.

[The Man in Blue]

On 7/7/2021 at 3:04 PM, MadMax said:

There are still just a lot of old bitter umpires who rebel against anything black for the most inane of reasons. 

 

Please don't think I am in that group ... I think the black generally looks sharp.  I just am not anti-navy, because I think it can look equally sharp too.  I'm not anti-powder either.  What I do think is much of it does need some updating.

The only colors I am opposed to are white and red.  White looks fine, but I just don't wear white (I would walk through a CDC clean-room and come out with a stain).  Red ... just ... no.  It just screams "LOOK AT ME!"  My biggest beef with you USSSA Softball.

(The gardener's bags -- yeah, those are the ones.  Don't EVER do that.)

(The navy masks -- I like the navy and red look, but I kind of feel about the red pads like I do red shirts.  Now I am debating if I want to take up this challenge, Max!)

 

On 7/7/2021 at 3:04 PM, MadMax said:

By posting that NFHS Softball citation, you just contradicted yourself. NFHS Softball directs that “the proper uniform for an umpire consists of… heather grey or navy blue slacks…” It would seem that NFHS Softball does care. And it’s this pedantic caring that really complicates things for all of us, from manufacturers to retailers to customers (us umpires). @JimKirk wrote an extensive article about this, and how much of a challenging mess it makes for him and his colleagues. I’ll supplement that by saying that us, as customers, are frustrated because… if we do both bat sports – or want to – why do we have to go out and get all those different pants and other accessories? 

PS - For the record, I’m not against navy, or just about* any other color. Instead, I’m against you telling me – especially in a formal document (ie. Rules) – that I have to use a specific color or style… that you aren’t providing, but instead expecting me to purchase. 

 

I don't think I contradicted myself.  I was pointing out that NFHS has a standardized uniform they want, but I have never seen any assignor, association, etc. enforce it or ding a person for it (unless it was something just way beyond the pale).  The only time I have ever been told, without any leeway, to wear something VERY specific was when I was asked to do a USA Softball National (you have to wear these specific things -- down to the pants -- and you can only buy them from us).  I turned it down.

To that point though, NFHS Baseball DOES also has a specific thing they want to see: NAVY.  Also to that end, they don't say charcoal or heather ... they just say "gray."  They do acknowledge that states will adopt other colors though.

 

In Illinois, for baseball, we have been told we can really wear anything we want during the regular season as long as we match our partner.  Postseason though ... Navy and gray is non-negotiable.

[The Man in Blue]

18 hours ago, umpstu said:

I had one of their powder blue turtle neck sweaters.  Very sharp.  Man, +POS used to be such a great place to get your umpire needs.

 

Not the look I am looking for ... but I hope you rocked it like this!

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

That poor woman's back...slammed by two cruise missiles like that...

~Dawg

[udbrky]

The shirt you posted is the accepted alternative for IHSAA. They went with that, to allow softball umpires to more cheaply transition over. 3 years ago, they had initially accepted the MLB #2 (thin black stripe down the side). Then, changed their minds back and forth before finally saying that the softball one was the accepted alternate to Navy. It was ridiculous and rivaled Billy Martin's yo-yo tenure as Yankees manager.

[FranklinT]

Although navy gets a bad rap (and rightfully so) some of those old videos of MLB guys sporting the logo athletic navy shirts (mid 90s ish) haven’t aged too poorly if you check out pics now.

I do think something seems wrong for guys working high level high school and above baseball wearing navy.  Seems little league ish and out of touch.

[Rock Bottom]

2 hours ago, FranklinT said:

Although navy gets a bad rap (and rightfully so) some of those old videos of MLB guys sporting the logo athletic navy shirts (mid 90s ish) haven’t aged too poorly if you check out pics now.

I do think something seems wrong for guys working high level high school and above baseball wearing navy.  Seems little league ish and out of touch.

A lot of states require it for HS. 

[FranklinT]

9 hours ago, Rock Bottom said:

A lot of states require it for HS. 

Well aware