Jump to content
  • 0

Double player interference on the runner?


Guest Dwight Hammons

Question

Guest Dwight Hammons

During a double play, the runner going to 2nd does not attempt to slide or get out of the way of the throw from the shortstop to 1st base to complete the DP. Is this interference on the runner and if so, are both the baserunner are out? I understand that this is an umpire judgment call but the ump explained to me that the runner on 1st is NOT out because there was not an attempt to make a throw from the SS?   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 0
37 minutes ago, Guest Dwight Hammons said:

Is this interference on the runner and if so, are both the baserunner are out?

Both are out (In Fed).  Bail out of the way or slide... those are the choices.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
34 minutes ago, Guest Dwight Hammons said:

During a double play, the runner going to 2nd does not attempt to slide or get out of the way of the throw from the shortstop to 1st base to complete the DP. Is this interference on the runner and if so, are both the baserunner are out? I understand that this is an umpire judgment call but the ump explained to me that the runner on 1st is NOT out because there was not an attempt to make a throw from the SS?   

What rules? It matters.

A slide is never required in any rules. Any slide must be legal, which varies by rule set. 

The runner may or may not be required to peel off depending on the rule set. Example: In OBR just continuing to run is not interference by rule.

If there is no play attempted where was any interference? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
2 hours ago, Guest Dwight Hammons said:

During a double play, the runner going to 2nd does not attempt to slide or get out of the way of the throw from the shortstop to 1st base to complete the DP. Is this interference on the runner and if so, are both the baserunner are out? I understand that this is an umpire judgment call but the ump explained to me that the runner on 1st is NOT out because there was not an attempt to make a throw from the SS?   

Did F6 not make any attempt because he couldn't, as a result of R1's action (or inaction)?

Or did F6 not make any attempt because there was no way on Earth he was getting the second out, not matter what R1 was doing - ie. he was just catching the ball and conceding B/R to first

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

Did F6 not make any attempt because he couldn't, as a result of R1's action (or inaction)?

Or did F6 not make any attempt because there was no way on Earth he was getting the second out, not matter what R1 was doing - ie. he was just catching the ball and conceding B/R to first

We also need to know if F6 was still on (about) the bag, or had he crossed the base toward right field -- in that latter case R1 continuing to run at the base is NOT INT or a FPSR violation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

A force-play-slide-rule is by definition, an obligation to slide on any force out at any base (other than first).

The only alternative is to veer off away from the defender.  Going straight in is always interference .

The rule also says whether or not a double play can be completed has no bearing on the application of this rule

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
6 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

A force-play-slide-rule is by definition, an obligation to slide on any force out at any base (other than first).

The only alternative is to veer off away from the defender.  Going straight in is always interference .

The rule also says whether or not a double play can be completed has no bearing on the application of this rule

These are the FED rules.  Different in college and OBR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
17 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

A force-play-slide-rule is by definition, an obligation to slide on any force out at any base (other than first).

That's not correct. It places additional restrictions on a legal slide.

No runner is ever required to slide by any major code. Period.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
14 minutes ago, maven said:

That's not correct. It places additional restrictions on a legal slide.

No runner is ever required to slide by any major code. Period.

The NCAA rule book literally says, word for word, “on any force play, a runner must slide in a direct line between the bases”…then says the only way they “need not slide is if they slide or run in a direction away from the fielder”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
38 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

The NCAA rule book literally says, word for word, “on any force play, a runner must slide in a direct line between the bases”…then says the only way they “need not slide is if they slide or run in a direction away from the fielder”

And FED adds the restriction that no pop-up slide is allowed as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
35 minutes ago, agdz59 said:

And FED adds the restriction that no pop-up slide is allowed as well.

I mean, if you want to argue they don’t have to slide bc they can peel off instead, that’s fine; but running straight into the base does not meet the alternative to sliding

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
1 hour ago, SH0102 said:

I mean, if you want to argue they don’t have to slide bc they can peel off instead, that’s fine; but running straight into the base does not meet the alternative to sliding

If the fielder has taken the throw and gone to one side or the other running straight into the base would not be a violation. Peeling off in the fielders direction would. Benefit of the doubt goes to the fielder and FPSR if R1 does not legally slide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
9 hours ago, SH0102 said:

I mean, if you want to argue they don’t have to slide bc they can peel off instead, that’s fine; but running straight into the base does not meet the alternative to sliding

Argue? "Slide or avoid" is a pretty standard (universal) interpretation. And if there's an "instead," then sliding isn't actually required, is it?

"FPSR = must slide" is a common myth, and your interpretation doesn't help debunk it. Our association still has umpires calling youth runners out when they peel off at 2B.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
27 minutes ago, maven said:

Argue? "Slide or avoid" is a pretty standard (universal) interpretation. And if there's an "instead," then sliding isn't actually required, is it?

"FPSR = must slide" is a common myth, and your interpretation doesn't help debunk it. Our association still has umpires calling youth runners out when they peel off at 2B.

Never once did I say peeling off is INT.  And never once did I say their only option is to slide. The very next sentence said their only alternative was to give themselves up and veer away 

But going straight in is NOT peeling off, and is not away from the defender…that is what I said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
16 hours ago, Guest Dwight Hammons said:

During a double play, the runner going to 2nd does not attempt to slide or get out of the way of the throw from the shortstop to 1st base to complete the DP. Is this interference on the runner and if so, are both the baserunner are out? I understand that this is an umpire judgment call but the ump explained to me that the runner on 1st is NOT out because there was not an attempt to make a throw from the SS?   

IF this is high school baseball, or a game played under NFHS (Federation rules) and the runner going into second base is called for interference, then both he, and the batter/runner are out.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
12 hours ago, SH0102 said:

The NCAA rule book literally says, word for word, “on any force play, a runner must slide in a direct line between the bases”…then says the only way they “need not slide is if they slide or run in a direction away from the fielder”

So a slide isn't required but must me legal if one is done. Thanks for reinforcing what we have been saying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
1 hour ago, SH0102 said:

Never once did I say peeling off is INT.  And never once did I say their only option is to slide. The very next sentence said their only alternative was to give themselves up and veer away 

But going straight in is NOT peeling off, and is not away from the defender…that is what I said.

If F6 takes the throw, drags his foot, and steps to the right field side of the bag to make the throw (call it 3-5 feet off the base path) then the runner continuing to the base IS in a direction away from the defender.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
2 hours ago, SH0102 said:

And never once did I say their only option is to slide.

 

13 hours ago, SH0102 said:

A force-play-slide-rule is by definition, an obligation to slide on any force out at any base (other than first).

Your original statement here is incorrect and misleading in several dimensions. First, it's not a definition, but a restriction. Second, it concerns force plays, not only force outs (not all force plays retire the runner, but fielders are protected during all force plays). Third, the rule imposes no additional obligation regarding slides: a runner must slide legally or avoid a fielder making a play in ALL plays, not only force plays. FPSR does not add this provision. Fourth, your statement here is quite generic ("a" force play slide rule), but your response backpedals to the NCAA rule. And, finally, as already mentioned, stating the matter this categorically reinforces a rule myth: if runners are obligated to slide, then they don't have an option. Rather, their obligation is to slide or avoid (an obligation which FPSR does not add).

The ONLY restriction added by a FPSR is additional restriction(s) to what counts as a legal slide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
36 minutes ago, maven said:

 

Your original statement here is incorrect and misleading in several dimensions. First, it's not a definition, but a restriction. Second, it concerns force plays, not only force outs (not all force plays retire the runner, but fielders are protected during all force plays). Third, the rule imposes no additional obligation regarding slides: a runner must slide legally or avoid a fielder making a play in ALL plays, not only force plays. FPSR does not add this provision. Fourth, your statement here is quite generic ("a" force play slide rule), but your response backpedals to the NCAA rule. And, finally, as already mentioned, stating the matter this categorically reinforces a rule myth: if runners are obligated to slide, then they don't have an option. Rather, their obligation is to slide or avoid (an obligation which FPSR does not add).

The ONLY restriction added by a FPSR is additional restriction(s) to what counts as a legal slide.

If you're going to play grammar police, at least include the entire statement.  You pick and choose one sentence to say it is not correct, but ignore the very next sentence.  It's called a statement, which can involve more than one sentence.  I apologize for putting a space between them.  And yes, I should have said "play" instead of "out", that one should be corrected

A force-play-slide-rule is by definition, an obligation to slide on any force out at any base (other than first).

The only alternative is to veer off away from the defender.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
14 hours ago, maven said:

That's not correct. It places additional restrictions on a legal slide.

No runner is ever required to slide by any major code. Period.

True, but they can be called out for the interference , not to a not sliding rule, but because he didnt slide, he interfered.   love runners not sliding to 2nd, easy one for me. if varsity, if coach comes out, "Dont even pass that line, interference, double play"

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
6 minutes ago, Umpire942 said:

True, but they can be called out for the interference , not to a not sliding rule, but because he didnt slide, he interfered. 

 

DP  

but just because he doesn't slide, doesn't mean he interfered either ....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
2 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

but just because he doesn't slide, doesn't mean he interfered either ....

right, thats the judgement part

was it going to be a play there, did he not throw because a body in front of him and didnt want to knock him in the head, or pivots awkward to move around him, etc.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
3 minutes ago, Umpire942 said:

right, thats the judgement part

was it going to be a play there, did he not throw because a body in front of him and didnt want to knock him in the head, or pivots awkward to move around him, etc.  

that's where we get paid the big-bucks!:lol:

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
29 minutes ago, Umpire942 said:

True, but they can be called out for the interference , not to a not sliding rule, but because he didnt slide, he interfered.   love runners not sliding to 2nd, easy one for me. if varsity, if coach comes out, "Dont even pass that line, interference, double play"

INT on a force play is "upgraded" to FPSR. This makes a difference because (at least in FED) the penalty is different: the runner is out (whether or not retired during play) and the BR is out, AND other runners must return to their TOP bases (for regular INT, it's their TOI bases).

All FPSR is INT; not all INT is FPSR.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
19 minutes ago, Umpire942 said:

right, thats the judgement part

was it going to be a play there, did he not throw because a body in front of him and didnt want to knock him in the head, or pivots awkward to move around him, etc.  

 

15 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

that's where we get paid the big-bucks!:lol:

We get paid the big bucks to know the rule for the code we are calling. OBR allows a retired runner to continue to advance, sliding or not. Unless there is something intentional to interfere with the throw they can go in standing up. The pivot man slides in or out to make the throw. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
Answer this question...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...