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Interference by batter?


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Guest guest 21

NCAA rules. Runner on second with one out. Right handed batter with 1-0 count. Batter takes the next pitch which is in the dirt. The catcher blocks the ball and it bounces forward and into the right handed batters box. The batter steps backward and in doing so kicks the ball with his heel, sending the ball several feet deeper into foul territory. The runner from second runs to third base safely. The correct call is...?

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19 minutes ago, Guest guest 21 said:

NCAA rules. Runner on second with one out. Right handed batter with 1-0 count. Batter takes the next pitch which is in the dirt. The catcher blocks the ball and it bounces forward and into the right handed batters box. The batter steps backward and in doing so kicks the ball with his heel, sending the ball several feet deeper into foul territory. The runner from second runs to third base safely. The correct call is...?

Addressed here if you are talking about this game: DBU vs VIRGINIA batter inference? - Collegiate - Umpire-Empire

But in years past if this was not intentional the ball would be live and R2 would stay on 3B. This year OBR made a rule change that makes this a dead ball absent intent and R2 returns to 2B. NCAA seems to have copied the OBR rule but did not include the OBR wording for a deflected pitch that isn't a third strike. That being said, NCAA says that if an interp is needed for a rule they have it will by default be the OBR interp.

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Guest Young

Intention doesn’t matter. Yes, this is interference. Whether or not he meant too, is completely irrelevant. Think of it this way, in that exact scenario, say the runner was stealing on the pitch and the batter stepped out of the batters box accidentally and got hit by the throw. That would still be interference even though he didn’t mean it. The runner on any steals to third, is only aloud to be in the batters box. No matter what. No matter where the ball is

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15 minutes ago, Guest Young said:

Intention doesn’t matter. Yes, this is interference. Whether or not he meant too, is completely irrelevant. Think of it this way, in that exact scenario, say the runner was stealing on the pitch and the batter stepped out of the batters box accidentally and got hit by the throw. That would still be interference even though he didn’t mean it. The runner on any steals to third, is only aloud to be in the batters box. No matter what. No matter where the ball is

Just because one play involving the batter, a stealing runner, and the ball does not require intent, does not mean all plays involving the batter, a stealing runner, and the ball require it or that the rulings will be the same.

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29 minutes ago, Guest Young said:

Intention doesn’t matter. Yes, this is interference. Whether or not he meant too, is completely irrelevant. Think of it this way, in that exact scenario, say the runner was stealing on the pitch and the batter stepped out of the batters box accidentally and got hit by the throw. That would still be interference even though he didn’t mean it. The runner on any steals to third, is only aloud to be in the batters box. No matter what. No matter where the ball is

That would be true for a caught pitch or a ball that was retrieved without involving the ball deflected to the batter.  But once the defense boots the ball on the ground we used to need intent. OBR decided that intent was hard to judge and now kills it unless it is an uncaught 3K. NCAA did not use the OBR wording so we are not sure but it looks like they follow OBR.

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if your ever in doubt, even if in batters box , or leaves the batters box, intentional or unintentional, catcher has the right of way.  But the player touching a live ball was an interesting twist.  I would still have interference, runner out , if 2 outs batter

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5 hours ago, Umpire942 said:

if your ever in doubt, even if in batters box , or leaves the batters box, intentional or unintentional, catcher has the right of way.  But the player touching a live ball was an interesting twist.  I would still have interference, runner out , if 2 outs batter

If you did have intentional interference wouldn’t you have the batter out and return R2?

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15 hours ago, Jimurray said:

If you did have intentional interference wouldn’t you have the batter out and return R2?

less then 2 outs its the runner, 2 outs its the batter, you cant call a double play , unless I would only reserve for malicious contact on catcher.

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5 minutes ago, Umpire942 said:

less then 2 outs its the runner, 2 outs its the batter, you cant call a double play , unless I would only reserve for malicious contact on catcher.

Rules reference, please.  Remember, the OP was R2 advancing to third. ;)

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7-3-5   Interfere with the catcher’s fielding or throwing by:

  1. leaning over home plate,
  2. stepping out of the batter’s box,
  3. making any other movement, including follow-through interference, which hinders actions at home plate or the catcher’s attempt to play on a runner, or
  4. failing to make a reasonable effort to vacate a congested area when there is a throw to home plate and there is time for the batter to move away.

PENALTY: When there are two outs, the batter is out. When there are not two outs and the runner is advancing to home plate, if the runner is tagged out, the ball remains live and interference is ignored. Otherwise, the ball is dead and the runner is called out. When an attempt to put out a runner at any other base is unsuccessful, the batter is out and all runners must return to bases occupied at the time of the pitch. If the pitch is a third strike and in the umpire’s judgment interference prevents a possible double play (additional outs), two may be ruled out (8-4-2g).

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1 minute ago, Umpire942 said:

7-3-5   Interfere with the catcher’s fielding or throwing by:

  1. leaning over home plate,
  2. stepping out of the batter’s box,
  3. making any other movement, including follow-through interference, which hinders actions at home plate or the catcher’s attempt to play on a runner, or
  4. failing to make a reasonable effort to vacate a congested area when there is a throw to home plate and there is time for the batter to move away.

PENALTY: When there are two outs, the batter is out. When there are not two outs and the runner is advancing to home plate, if the runner is tagged out, the ball remains live and interference is ignored. Otherwise, the ball is dead and the runner is called out. When an attempt to put out a runner at any other base is unsuccessful, the batter is out and all runners must return to bases occupied at the time of the pitch. If the pitch is a third strike and in the umpire’s judgment interference prevents a possible double play (additional outs), two may be ruled out (8-4-2g).

1) It's poorly worded, but see the bolded above.

2) The OP was NCAA and you quoted FED.  Here's the NCAA rule, with the same relevant parts highlighted (but the penalty portion is the same in all codes):

f.    The batter intentionally or unintentionally interferes with the catcher’s
fielding or throwing by stepping out of the batter’s box or making any other
movement that hinders a defensive player’s action at home plate;
PENALTY for f.—The batter is out and all runners return to their bases at the time
of the pitch.
Exceptions—
1) If the runner is advancing to home plate and there are fewer than two outs,
the runner, instead of the batter, is out.

2) The batter is not out if any runner attempting to advance is put out, or if
the runner trying to score is called out for batter’s interference.
3) If the batter also should strike out on the play, it is a double play.
4) If a batter/runner and a catcher fielding a batted ball make contact, no call
shall be made unless either player intentionally interferes with the play.

 

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59 minutes ago, Umpire942 said:

PENALTY: (1) When there are two outs, the batter is out. (2▫▪) When there are not two outs and the runner is advancing to home plate, if the runner is tagged out, the ball remains live and interference is ignored. (2▫▪▪) Otherwise, the ball is dead and the runner is called out. (2▫▫▪▪)When an attempt to put out a runner at any other base is unsuccessful, the batter is out and all runners must return to bases occupied at the time of the pitch. If the pitch is a third strike and in the umpire’s judgment interference prevents a possible double play (additional outs), two may be ruled out (8-4-2g).

As noumpere points out, the FED penalty is the same as NCAA, it's just written poorly. Here's the breakdown:

  1. With 2 outs, the batter is out; OR
  2. With less than 2 outs:
    • If R3 is advancing on the play:
      • If R3 is tagged out, disregard the INT
      • If R3 is not tagged out, then the ball is dead, R3 is out [, and other runners return to their TOP bases]
    • If R1 or R2 are advancing on the play:
      • [If the runner is tagged out, disregard the INT]
      • If the runner is not tagged out, then [the ball is dead,] the batter is out, and other runners return to their TOP bases

See? Same! :wave:

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Guest guest 21
On 6/13/2021 at 8:14 PM, Guest guest 21 said:

NCAA rules. Runner on second with one out. Right handed batter with 1-0 count. Batter takes the next pitch which is in the dirt. The catcher blocks the ball and it bounces forward and into the right handed batters box. The batter steps backward and in doing so kicks the ball with his heel, sending the ball several feet deeper into foul territory. The runner from second runs to third base safely. The correct call is...?

So, am I correct that there is disagreement? noumpere, maven and others see it as interference and Jimurray believes sending the runner back is the proper ruling because OBR made an approved ruling at some point, although he can't say for sure.

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1 hour ago, Guest guest 21 said:

So, am I correct that there is disagreement? noumpere, maven and others see it as interference and Jimurray believes sending the runner back is the proper ruling because OBR made an approved ruling at some point, although he can't say for sure.

I believe that @noumpere and @maven are only correcting @Umpire942s improper application of batter's interference penalties if you actually called INTENTIONAL interference in the OP. Sending the runner back when there is no intent by the batter is done by a new rule change in 2021 OBR: • Amended Rule 6.01(a)(1) to include situations where a dropped pitch (not on a third strike) is inadvertently deflected.

"If a pitch that is not caught remains in the vicinity of home plate and it is inadvertently deflected by the batter or umpire, that ball is a dead ball and the runners should return to the bases they occupied at the time of the pitch (but if the pitch was strike three, the batter is out)"

NCAA did not add that same verbiage in their 2021 book but based on the OP in the NCAA game they applied the OBR rule which is consistent with their philosophy of using OBR interps if an NCAA rule does not cover a situation.

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