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DBU vs VIRGINIA batter inference?


THUMPER61
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Watching this game was wondering why batter was not out for  interference when he looked to me to have intentionally kick the ball when r2 was stealing 3rd. They sent runner back but I always thought the batter would be out unless r2 was thrown out. I do high school is something different in college?

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Saw this as well (top of the 7th 1 out for those that want to go see it). Not sure it was intentional or not but it's unclear what the basis was for simply sending R2 back.

@Gil this one for the site?

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1 hour ago, Velho said:

Saw this as well (top of the 7th 1 out for those that want to go see it). Not sure it was intentional or not but it's unclear what the basis was for simply sending R2 back.

@Gil this one for the site?

If unintentional maybe NCAA adopted this 2021 OBR rule change.

"6.01 Interference, Obstruction, and Catcher Collisions (a) Batter or Runner Interference It is interference by a batter or a runner when: (1)  After a third strike that is not caught by the catcher, the batter-runner clearly hinders the catcher in his attempt to field the ball. Such batter-runner is out, the ball is dead, and all other runners return to the bases they occupied at the time of the pitch. If a pitch that is not caught remains in the vicinity of home plate and it is inadvertently deflected by the batter or umpire, that ball is a dead ball and the runners should return to the bases they occupied at the time of the pitch (but if the pitch was strike three, the batter is out)."

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26 minutes ago, THUMPER61 said:

Thanks.. the ball was in the vicinity of the plate before it was deflected and if they rule inadvertent then it makes sense. The replay showed he intentionally kick it imho. same rule high school/ legion?

The rule I quoted is OBR which would apply to Legion. NCAA adopted the OBR third strike hinder rule but their book does not have the additional OBR wording for an inadvertent deflection by batter or umpire. Maybe they put out an interp that they are the same as OBR. In FED/high school any interference on a dropped pitch must be intentional by the batter. Otherwise it's a live ball. 

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It was not third strike. Count was 2-1 I believe.

1-1 count, pitch for a ball, catcher slid to his right, ball bounced back across to catchers left under feet of the right handed batter. Batter moved his right foot making contact with the ball which moved well away and R2 advanced to 3rd base. Umps called time and returned R2 to 2nd base. At bat resumed with 2-1 count.

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19 minutes ago, Velho said:

It was not third strike. Count was 2-1 I believe.

1-1 count, pitch for a ball, catcher slid to his right, ball bounced back across to catchers left under feet of the right handed batter. Batter moved his right foot making contact with the ball which moved well away and R2 advanced to 3rd base. Umps called time and returned R2 to 2nd base. At bat resumed with 2-1 count.

That would be in compliance with this part of the OBR rule:

"If a pitch that is not caught remains in the vicinity of home plate and it is inadvertently deflected by the batter or umpire, that ball is a dead ball and the runners should return to the bases they occupied at the time of the pitch (but if the pitch was strike three, the batter is out"

But I can't find that in the NCAA book.

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According to the online play-by-play, Dallas Baptist had runner Wrobleski at second base during the top of the 7th inning with Jones batting. Jones did get to a 2-1 count (with a sequence of ball, foul ball, ball, ball, strike looking, strike swinging). The play-by-play makes no mention of any kind of controversy during Jones’ at-bat. And, yes, the NCAA did make a change to their rule about batter’s interference by adding a Note to rule 7-11h.

A. Benefield doubled to deep center. A. Benefield picked off second.

R. Wrobleski singled to left, R. Wrobleski to second on error by left fielder

B. Jones struck out swinging.

C. Boulware struck out swinging.

2021 and 2022 NCAA Baseball Major Rules Changes

7.11h Note Batter Interference – Dropped Third Strike

Clarify interference. Specifically, after a third strike that is not caught by the catcher and the batter-runner clearly hinders the catcher in the catcher’s attempt to field the ball, the batter-runner is out, the ball is dead, and all other runners return to the bases they occupied at the time of the pitch regardless of the number of outs. If the pitched ball deflects off the catcher or umpire and subsequently touches the batter-runner, it is not considered interference unless, in the judgment of the umpire, the batter-runner clearly hinders the catcher in their attempt to field the ball regardless the number of outs. Rationale: To simplify the administration of this rule regardless of number of outs and whether the action is intentional or unintentional. If the batter-runner hinders the catcher in any way on a dropped third strike (e.g., kicks the ball unintentionally hindering the catcher from making the play), time should be called immediately, the batter-runner is out and all runners return to their last legally occupied base, regardless if they were stealing or not.

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5 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

2021 and 2022 NCAA Baseball Major Rules Changes

7.11h Note Batter Interference – Dropped Third Strike

Clarify interference. Specifically, after a third strike that is not caught by the catcher and the batter-runner clearly hinders the catcher in the catcher’s attempt to field the ball, the batter-runner is out, the ball is dead, and all other runners return to the bases they occupied at the time of the pitch regardless of the number of outs. If the pitched ball deflects off the catcher or umpire and subsequently touches the batter-runner, it is not considered interference unless, in the judgment of the umpire, the batter-runner clearly hinders the catcher in their attempt to field the ball regardless the number of outs. Rationale: To simplify the administration of this rule regardless of number of outs and whether the action is intentional or unintentional. If the batter-runner hinders the catcher in any way on a dropped third strike (e.g., kicks the ball unintentionally hindering the catcher from making the play), time should be called immediately, the batter-runner is out and all runners return to their last legally occupied base, regardless if they were stealing or not.

Ugh. Feels squishy in application to this play. It wasn't a third strike and it wasn't a batter-runner. I can see the philosophy from the above was applied but, by the above and extension of their application, any pitched ball that deflects of a catcher or umpire and then touches a batter will send all runners back. Feels like a bail out for the defense.

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2 minutes ago, Velho said:

Ugh. Feels squishy in application to this play. It wasn't a third strike and it wasn't a batter-runner. I can see the philosophy from the above was applied but, by the above and extension of their application, any pitched ball that deflects of a catcher or umpire and then touches a batter will send all runners back. Feels like a bail out for the defense.

I think you have it wrong. If the catcher boots the ball and it deflects off either the umpire or batter it’s dead and runners return TOP in OBR. NCAA might want the same thing but they didn’t exactly copy the OBR rule. 

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7 hours ago, Jimurray said:

"6.01 Interference, Obstruction, and Catcher Collisions (a) Batter or Runner Interference It is interference by a batter or a runner when: (1)  After a third strike that is not caught by the catcher, the batter-runner clearly hinders the catcher in his attempt to field the ball. Such batter-runner is out, the ball is dead, and all other runners return to the bases they occupied at the time of the pitch. If a pitch that is not caught remains in the vicinity of home plate and it is inadvertently deflected by the batter or umpire, that ball is a dead ball and the runners should return to the bases they occupied at the time of the pitch (but if the pitch was strike three, the batter is out)."

Coming back to the OBR rule. It'd feel better if the highlighted words were a new section and thus not third strike related but, taking them as if they were, @Jimurray I do see this applying under OBR. Makes me wodner at what point "not caught" ends and "remains in vicinity of home plate"?

A) A pitch that goes direct to umpire is not caught before or after it deflects off the umpire? i.e. live or dead?

B) A pitch that goes off the ground and then the umpire is not caught before or after it deflects off the umpire?  i.e. live or dead?

C) A pitch that deflects off the catchers glove and then the umpire is not caught before or after it deflects off the umpire?  i.e. live or dead?

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6 minutes ago, Jimurray said:
12 minutes ago, Velho said:

Ugh. Feels squishy in application to this play. It wasn't a third strike and it wasn't a batter-runner. I can see the philosophy from the above was applied but, by the above and extension of their application, any pitched ball that deflects of a catcher or umpire and then touches a batter will send all runners back. Feels like a bail out for the defense.

I think you have it wrong. If the catcher boots the ball and it deflects off either the umpire or batter it’s dead and runners return TOP in OBR. NCAA might want the same thing but they didn’t exactly copy the OBR rule. 

Agreed. I was solely referring to the NCAA rule as posted by Mr. S.A. I came back to OBR a minute later. Our posts passed each other like ships in the night. :)

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On 6/13/2021 at 11:08 PM, Velho said:

Agreed. I was solely referring to the NCAA rule as posted by Mr. S.A. I came back to OBR a minute later. Our posts passed each other like ships in the night. :)

And I think we need to have F2 clearly hindered by the deflection, not just the ball simply touching the batter.

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