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I love this game management!


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I think this sets a great tone an hopefully prevents the kid from catching one in the ear hole next AB.... Okay now a days it would be ribs, thigh vs earhole, but still great preventative umpiring.
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You're right: no umpiring manual has a chapter on "speeding the runner who just homered on his way."  That's the nature of game management: it's built on umpire experience and knowledge of the ga

This isn't an apples to apples comparison at many levels, but it has some relevance here. A couple of weeks ago Yermin Mercedes hit a 3-0 pitch out of the park while the White Sox were already leading

I feel like I’m gonna get hammered for this opinion, but can anyone point to a book or case where we are taught to do this?

Im not usually one to take a known situation and turn it into a “what if hypothetical, but I’m going to here.

What if that hit had caromed off the wall and not gone over?  By yelling at the BR to go, he actually potentially disadvantaged the defense as perhaps the batter would have had to stay at first, or been thrown out at second.

Wouldnt that have been a better discussion after the fact? (After he crossed home)

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You're right: no umpiring manual has a chapter on "speeding the runner who just homered on his way." 

That's the nature of game management: it's built on umpire experience and knowledge of the game, including the so-called "unwritten rules" that the players love so much. One of those is, "don't showboat after a big hit."

This umpire's choice is unusual, which is why it drew attention. It won't work for everyone or in every situation (it STILL won't be in any manual, though it might make an NCAA training tape or two). 

But for this umpire, in this game, in this situation—I like it too. It's a little visual, and could have been handled with a verbal KTSO, and then we wouldn't be talking about it. But maybe visual was good: the other team probably saw it too, which maybe made it more effective by communicating both ways.

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You're right: no umpiring manual has a chapter on "speeding the runner who just homered on his way." 
That's the nature of game management: it's built on umpire experience and knowledge of the game, including the so-called "unwritten rules" that the players love so much. One of those is, "don't showboat after a big hit."
This umpire's choice is unusual, which is why it drew attention. It won't work for everyone or in every situation (it STILL won't be in any manual, though it might make an NCAA training tape or two). 
But for this umpire, in this game, in this situation—I like it too. It's a little visual, and could have been handled with a verbal KTSO, and then we wouldn't be talking about it. But maybe visual was good: the other team probably saw it too, which maybe made it more effective by communicating both ways.

Well said, Maven. Not everything can be answered by only the rules book.


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44 minutes ago, maven said:

You're right: no umpiring manual has a chapter on "speeding the runner who just homered on his way." 

That's the nature of game management: it's built on umpire experience and knowledge of the game, including the so-called "unwritten rules" that the players love so much. One of those is, "don't showboat after a big hit."

This umpire's choice is unusual, which is why it drew attention. It won't work for everyone or in every situation (it STILL won't be in any manual, though it might make an NCAA training tape or two). 

But for this umpire, in this game, in this situation—I like it too. It's a little visual, and could have been handled with a verbal KTSO, and then we wouldn't be talking about it. But maybe visual was good: the other team probably saw it too, which maybe made it more effective by communicating both ways.

I get that completely, and respect the information.

Can you address the ramifications of what might have happened if, for example, the ball hit the fence and batter barely slid in safely to second?

I guess I’m just torn on this being borderline “coaching” unless the ball was absolutely tattooed and there was no chance it wouldn’t be a home run

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18 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

I get that completely, and respect the information.

Can you address the ramifications of what might have happened if, for example, the ball hit the fence and batter barely slid in safely to second?

I guess I’m just torn on this being borderline “coaching” unless the ball was absolutely tattooed and there was no chance it wouldn’t be a home run

That ain't borderline coaching.  It's 100% good umpiring.

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17 minutes ago, umpstu said:

That ain't borderline coaching.  It's 100% good umpiring.

I guess this is why hypotheticals don't work...they just get ignored...

I am not arguing good game management...I respect Maven's knowledge tremendously and agree that it likely helped prevent an issue that otherwise may have happened.

But he did that pretty quickly after that ball was hit....what if it hit the top of the wall?  Now you have an issue where you just told the batter to run where he otherwise would have admired...and now he is further along the base paths than he would have been...

I am not arguing, just asking for clarification on would that be an issue (for assignors, evaluators, defensive HC, etc) or not if that hypothetical played out

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4 hours ago, SH0102 said:

Can you address the ramifications of what might have happened if, for example, the ball hit the fence and batter barely slid in safely to second?

At this level, nobody is going to think this umpire is coaching the player. Part of the reason: everybody knows exactly why he's telling the player to run, and it ain't to help him beat the throw at 2B.

Some amateur umpires (not at this level) are so scared of appearing to coach that their game management becomes weak. They don't intervene even when it's warranted. Of course, learning where the line is requires...yup, experience! Game management is hard.

Frankly, I think coaching and game management end up being mutually exclusive: if you're doing one, then you're not doing the other.

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4 minutes ago, maven said:

At this level, nobody is going to think this umpire is coaching the player. Part of the reason: everybody knows exactly why he's telling the player to run, and it ain't to help him beat the throw at 2B.

Some amateur umpires (not at this level) are so scared of appearing to coach that their game management becomes weak. They don't intervene even when it's warranted. Of course, learning where the line is requires...yup, experience! Game management is hard.

Frankly, I think coaching and game management end up being mutually exclusive: if you're doing one, then you're not doing the other.

Fair enough, thank you

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18 hours ago, maven said:

But maybe visual was good: the other team probably saw it too, which maybe made it more effective by communicating both ways.

This isn't an apples to apples comparison at many levels, but it has some relevance here. A couple of weeks ago Yermin Mercedes hit a 3-0 pitch out of the park while the White Sox were already leading 15-4 in the 9th inning.

Dissimilarities: Level of play MLB they know all the unwritten rules. And the play itself.

Similarities: Breaking an unwritten rule.

What happened the next night??? Mercedes got one thrown behind him.

In MLB you'd better fear reprisal, not as much in NCAA. 

But the umpire showed awareness and took control. As @maven said it was seen by both teams and set the tone that the situation had been handled. 

 

Now about it being coaching. As umpires it's not our domain at all. By us telling him to get his butt moving we're more giving him instruction towards the administration of the game, much like we might tell a batter to get in the box. If the ball had not gone out and he be called safe at second because we told him to get moving I have no problem at all and would tell an arguing coach the same thing. 

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On 6/9/2021 at 1:00 PM, SH0102 said:

I feel like I’m gonna get hammered for this opinion, but can anyone point to a book or case where we are taught to do this?

Im not usually one to take a known situation and turn it into a “what if hypothetical, but I’m going to here.

What if that hit had caromed off the wall and not gone over?  By yelling at the BR to go, he actually potentially disadvantaged the defense as perhaps the batter would have had to stay at first, or been thrown out at second.

Wouldnt that have been a better discussion after the fact? (After he crossed home)

Call it unsportsmanlike conduct if you need rulebook verbiage.

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