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I $%#&ed this up.


HokieUmp

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Per the subject line:  I stipulate fully that I [fornicated] the pooch on this.

In fact, of all the rules we enforce, among all the codes, BOO is my personal Waterloo.  It's happened now twice in my career, and I've managed to $%#& up the application of the rule both times.  I'll give the situation, and what I did/didn't do, and then you can tell me how wrong I was.  (I'd PREFER it not be done in a condescending manner, but hey - if I REALLY didn't want that, I could try not $%#&ing up in the first place.)

LL Majors.  Runner somewhere, I forget what base.  B3, we'll call him, steps to the plate.  He works the count full, and then hits a ball into LF.  It looks like it might end up a LL-homer - a ball that's a double at best that becomes a comedy of errors/misplays.  He trips over F2's leg as F2 is taking the throw, and misses the plate.  He gets tagged coming back - 1 out.

Then the defensive coach has checked the lineups, and it's determined B2 was skipped.  Now, I might suck at figuring this call out, but I'm VERY persuasive, apparently, and/or no one else knows any better how to deal with this, and they're only too happy to take the solution I offer.  I somehow had it that, since we'd finish dude's at-bat, we legalized him.  I REALIZE THIS IS NOT CORRECT.  So we let the run score that had scored when B3 got out on his adventure at the plate, and we moved on.

Hours later, I said - possibly even out loud:  "Holy @#!$, I $%#& that all up."

So, board:  tell me what I should have done.  Remember:  B2 should have been batting.  B3 did instead, and finished the at-bat getting thrown out at the plate.  If I may try:  I THINK we should have called B2 out, and then made B3 come back to bat, having put the runner back on [whatever base he was on].  Maybe?

Okay, let me have it.

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Hang in there, @HokieUmp...by sharing this honestly, you put it on everyone's radar. I like to grab 2 or 3 random, seldom used rules as part of my pre-games just to keep my crews sharp and I am putting this one in my rotation. I find a strange connection between what we pre-game frequently happening in a game. If making the right call stems from a mnemonic of, "Hey! We pre-gamed this!"...does it matter how a crew got the right call?

Additionally, I find when I'm in a classroom or taking a test...I nail stuff like BOO everytime. But, baseball is neither played nor adjudicated in a classroom or in a testing environment. Properly handling BOO in a game situation...is indeed a challenge.

~Dawg

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When you played, did you EVER let someone else bat when it was your turn?  No!

 

So, penalize the kid who is Too Stupid To Bat When It was His Turn (TSTBWIHT).  That doesn't roll off the tongue as easy as "Batting Out of Order / Batting Out OF Turn (BOO / BOOT).  So, call in Missed Your Turn At Bat (MYTAB).  You'll never mess this up again.

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As game officials, the umpires AND the official scorers need to pretend they cannot speak!  It is incumbent upon the Defensive Manager to bring the BOO to the attention to the plate umpire. [And that's why you insist on getting a line up!]

If he does it during the at-bat, and Proper batter comes to the plate and inherits the present count.  Note that in LL, neither batter gets credit for a time-at-bat.  This may be vital where MPR rules apply in tournaments.

If the play completes, and then the DM brings the BOO to the attention of the crew, the proper batter is declared out (he does NOT get credit for a time at bat), and the entire play is nullified--all runners return.  [Now, the DM may chose to ignore this if, let's say, his defense pulled off a double play!]  The next proper batter is the batter in the lineup who follows the proper batter just called out for BOO.

In tournaments, I have seen where official scorers jumped up and said, "Hey that batter is batting out of order!"  Thanks, Karen!  If you are doing a tournament, pre-brief the scorer!  That person is part of your team!  Let the situation play out!

OK, that's more than you need, but we are getting into tournament season, and most regular season teams bat the whole order.  The chances for a BOO increases as the tournaments begin!

Mike

Las Vegas

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HokieUmp, did you have a partner? If you did, did you consult before ruling?

When I have these kinds of infrequent situations, I always have to remind myself that there is no rush once the play is over, so I should call my partner over and either (1) get the ruling right or (2) we both screw it up! But even working solo, I try to slow down and think: what is the rule? How is it applied? 

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1 hour ago, Vegas_Ump said:

the entire play is nullified--all runners return.

To clarify: the results following the ball being put in play are nullified. Pitch count, steals, advances from passed balls, etc. during the BOO plate appearance stand.

Edit: Expand ball put in play to final outcome which includes HBP, BB, catchers interference, etc.

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From LLU

 

Situation
In the top of the second inning, with one out and base runners on first and third, the batter hits a ground ball up the middle and into center field. The runner scores from third and the runner from first advances to second base on the apparent RBI single. Before the next batter enters the batter’s box, the Manager of the defensive team calls for “time” and approaches the home plate umpire. The Manager notes on the line-up card that the offensive team skipped a batter in the lineup, and requests that the batter who just singled be called out and the run that just scored be disallowed.

Ruling
Because of when the defensive Manager brought the offensive team’s oversight to the attention of the umpire, dictated how the umpire ruled. In this instance, because the defensive team appealed to the home plate umpire after the out-of-turn at-bat occurred and before a pitch was delivered to the next batter, the umpire ruled that batter who was supposed to bat in that slot is out, and the result of the out-of-turn batter’s at-bat (the run that scored) is disallowed. The base runners are re-set to first base and third base.

Explanation
Rule 6.07 (b) batting out of turn – states that when an improper batter becomes a runner or is retired, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before any play, or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare the proper batter out; (2) nullify any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter’s advance to first base on a hit, error, base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise. Note: If any base runner advances on their own during an improper at-bat (such as an on wild pitch or passed ball), that advance shall be deemed legal.

There are several situations where batting out of order may occur, resulting in different rulings. Reference rule 6.07 – Batting out of Turn – to get a full understanding of this rule’s application.

6.07 - BATTING OUT OF TURN
(a) - A batter shall be called out, on appeal, when failing to bat in his/her proper turn, and another batter completes a time at bat in place of the proper batter. (1) The proper batter may take a position in the batter’s box at any time before the improper batter becomes a runner or is retired, and any balls and strikes shall be counted in the proper batter’s time at bat.
(b) - When an improper batter becomes a runner or is retired, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before any play or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare the proper batter out; and (2) nullify any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter or because of the improper batter’s advance to first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise.
NOTE: If a runner advances, while the improper batter is at bat, on a stolen base, illegal pitch [ Intermediate (50-70) Division/Junior/Senior League: balk], wild pitch, or passed ball, such advance is legal.
(c) - When an improper batter becomes a runner or is retired, and a pitch is made to the next batter of either team before an appeal is made, the improper batter thereby becomes the proper batter, and the results of such time at bat become legal.
(d) (1) - When the proper batter is called out for failing to bat in turn, the next batter shall be the batter whose name follows that of the proper batter thus called out;
(2) - When an improper batter becomes a proper batter because no appeal is made before the next pitch, the next batter shall be the batter whose name follows that of such legalized improper batter. The instant an improper batter’s actions are legalized, the batting order picks up with the name following that of the legalized improper batter.

 

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The DM *did* bring the discrepancy up.  So it was done in accordance with the rules.  I just kicked the hell out of it.

And yes, I had a partner.  Did I not mention that I can be wrong AND persuasive, both?  I managed to $%#& HIS chance to make the proper call, too!

For God's sake - it was a house-league game in a small-town environment.  They friggin' all KNOW each other!  How does it even get to that point?

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43 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Two heads are better than one.  This play is the exception that proves that rule.

Maybe he won't feel the wheels of this (short) bus, but:  I $%#&ed this up on my own.  HE let ME talk HIM into it!!!

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The one great thing I learned in my first association was how to handle batting out if order. I've seen it twice since then and gotten it right. Here's how I think about it FWIW:

There are only four things you need to know when the defense appeals:

Who is batting? 

Who is the correct batter?

When is the defense appealing?

Who is the next batter?

 

The first thing to do is figure out the first two. If those are the same person, it was a misunderstanding, you are done, play on.

If they are different, go to the next question - did the defense appeal while the wrong person is batting? If yes, swap the batters, the real batter inherits the count, and play on. No penalty. 

Did the defense appeal after a pitch was pitched to the batter after the wrong batter? If so, the wrong batter is now legitimized as the correct batter! The current batter should be whoever follows him in the batting order.  Go back to the start of this using the current batter.

If the defense appealed BEFORE a pitch to the next batter, the defense has the choice of the results of the play OR the correct batter declared out and all runners return to their place at time of pitch. Whatever they choose, the next batter is the batter following the correct batter.

QED

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What really helped me was making a little instructional video on BOO for my association. 

Actually, doing any educational project to instruct others is a great way to learn the rule set for yourself. It makes you summarize, distill and emphasize the rule set that will make sense to others if you were teaching it and in doing so, gives you deeper understanding of the topic. 

A media project like a video to describe a rule gives you some creativity too. You’ll find you are more engaged in learning too. Have some fun and make a video (I used my 1975 Topps baseball cards in my Boo video). 

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  • 3 months later...
On 5/25/2021 at 5:05 PM, agdz59 said:

If the defense appealed BEFORE a pitch to the next batter, the defense has the choice of the results of the play OR the correct batter declared out and all runners return to their place at time of pitch. Whatever they choose, the next batter is the batter following the correct batter.

I don't think that's correct. 

In FED, any outs made on a ball hit by an improper batter stand.  The out for BOO supersedes any out made by the improper batter, but not any other outs made on the play. 

Situation: 

R1 and R3, no outs.  Abel is the proper batter.  Baker bats instead of Abel.  Baker hits into 6-4-3 double play, scoring R3.  Charlie comes up to bat, and defensive HC appeals the improper batter. 

On the appeal, R3 returns to 3B, but R1 is still out 6-4.  Abel is declared out for BOO, and Baker is the proper batter.  Baker is not charged with GIIDP.  Baker now bats again, with 2 outs and R3.  ( FED 7.1.1 )

OBR is similar wording, the only parts of the improper at bat that are nullified are runners who either score or advance due to the improper batter.  

Once an appeal is made, the defense does not have any choice available.  

Happy to hear other opinions? 

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4 hours ago, BrainFreeze said:

I don't think that's correct. 

In FED, any outs made on a ball hit by an improper batter stand.  The out for BOO supersedes any out made by the improper batter, but not any other outs made on the play. 

Situation: 

R1 and R3, no outs.  Abel is the proper batter.  Baker bats instead of Abel.  Baker hits into 6-4-3 double play, scoring R3.  Charlie comes up to bat, and defensive HC appeals the improper batter. 

On the appeal, R3 returns to 3B, but R1 is still out 6-4.  Abel is declared out for BOO, and Baker is the proper batter.  Baker is not charged with GIIDP.  Baker now bats again, with 2 outs and R3.  ( FED 7.1.1 )

OBR is similar wording, the only parts of the improper at bat that are nullified are runners who either score or advance due to the improper batter.  

Once an appeal is made, the defense does not have any choice available.  

Happy to hear other opinions? 

There are only 3 situations that allows a “choice”.  
1. C/O

2. Illegal defensive player

3. not BOO

 

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On 9/21/2021 at 11:33 AM, Tborze said:

There are only 3 situations that allows a “choice”.  
1. C/O

2. Illegal defensive player

3. not BOO

 

 

On 5/25/2021 at 4:05 PM, agdz59 said:

If the defense appealed BEFORE a pitch to the next batter, the defense has the choice of the results of the play OR the correct batter declared out and all runners return to their place at time of pitch. Whatever they choose, the next batter is the batter following the correct batter.

The only choice in BOOT/MYTAB is whether or not to appeal it...The defense's choice to take the results of the play arrives by choosing to not appeal at all - once appealed the remedy is the remedy - missed batter is out, runners return, next batter up.

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