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Ugly end to a game


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So last night  LL minors 8-10U    Game goes slow as its a bit of a walk fest with each team hitting the 5 run inning limit at least once.

Score was 11V-9H we got to the top of the 4th and need to get thru the 4th to make it a game.  I was having a decent game albeit calling ball a lot. No real close calls out on the field only a couple tags at home none which were close and one which was not close to being close but he dropped the ball anyway. I don't make a habit of checking time until I feel its getting there and was just about to when the HTC came to me on his way over to his dugout and says "we are right at it, its 7:45"  I said well its not an official game unless we get thru 4.  He agrees we chat with the other coach, He was willing to go another inning.  OK I mention it to the league President who was there and he was "by all means we need it to be a complete one" So here we go.

Top of the 4th and the HTC sends out a new battery of kids, I knew them already. the pitcher can barely throw, I think its his 1st season. I mean cannot throw, He can barely reach the plate in the air, 90% failure rate on that.  I am thinking immediately, coach wants to walk in the 5 run limit and he is trying to get this kid to learn to throw the ball.  ( Sigh) so much for my 11-9 nail biter. 

Now the catcher I have seen before and this is "Froggy"  he is leaping out at every short ball trying to get to it. Which is putting him out on the plate.  I keep warning him you are gonna get hit one of those is gonna look good enough to swing at and someone is gonna whack you.  Well after about 7 or 8 short chats he finally starts to listen a little and now he's waiting on the ball letting it roll to him. he's not perfect ( mind you its now it is 14-9 r3,r1 no outs) but he is 3 outta 4 waiting on the pitch.  Well P1 finally gets the arc of his toss right and this high in the K zone meatball comes in.

Yup you guessed it froggy jumped out to catch it and WHACK the batter nails him.   "TIME" I holler look at the BR and instruct him run to 1st and I call "Catcher Interference"  Now before I can look down at froggy two coaches are there and all over him as he is heaped on the ground bawling. ( Cannot blame him I am sure that hurt) . He got it on the forearm near perfect to centered between wrist and elbow.  They get him up and back to the bench and get the previous catcher who's now at 2nd to get his gear on.  I went and asked how he was they said he was ok but they would take him to be checked.

 

Now I am feeling horrible, Maybe I should have done more, but I did not know how or what to do, I don't believe its a good idea to grab a kid and pull him back, to me yeah you save him from being hit but you open yourself to "more liability" by just touching them.

 

So I mentioned it to my UiC after the game, He tells me oh yeah he knows froggy. Here is what I do.   He tells me he talked to him about it, it did not stop so after the 1st batter he called time. backed him up to the back of where the catchers box was, drew a line in the sand and told him this is where you start and DO NOT CROSS it until you get the ball.   He said it worked about 40% of the time but the other 60% he still went for the ball but it was later and much further back so he was much less likely to get hit.

 

I do feel bad for froggy, I hope he is ok. I kinda hope he sticks with catching and learns it better now he's had a hard lesson on it.

 

Anyway not the ending to a game I was hoping for but yeah, anyone else see this issue? ( froggy) How did you handle it?

 

 

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At this level, I have gone over to the coach between innings and chatted about "froggy".  If the coach can't drill it into him WITH your reminders, that's too bad.  I hate to see a player get hurt.  I really do.  But there is a saying I use for adults (that they have to begin learning at some point), stupid SHOULD hurt.

Froggy was obviously told by at least 2 different umpires.  I'm thinking the coach has probably said something at some point.  Maybe it will sink it that "Hey, they were right".

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7 minutes ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

Froggy was obviously told by at least 2 different umpires.  I'm thinking the coach has probably said something at some point.  Maybe it will sink it that "Hey, they were right".

 

Heh I am pretty sure it was beat into him by the batter last night 🤣

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@ArchAngel72 I think this is totally (and I mean totally) on the coach. You can talk to the kid, but you aren't the one who put him at that position knowing full well how unsafely he plays the position. Your League President should have a word with the coach about how he is coaching.

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2 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

"we are right at it, its 7:45"  I said well its not an official game unless we get thru 4.

You don't have to do that any more if the league wants to use time limits. It's a new rule change for this year if the league adopts time limits. Not sure if your league has done that or is aware of the change. I would absolutely have time limits on minors games. Actually, I would on all LL games.

See regulation VII(h), and rules 4.10 and 4.11 in the 2021 rule book for details.

As far as Froggy goes, he might not do that again. Maybe now he'll listen to his coaches. If not, there's not much you can do.

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8 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

You don't have to do that any more if the league wants to use time limits. It's a new rule change for this year if the league adopts time limits. Not sure if your league has done that or is aware of the change. I would absolutely have time limits on minors games. Actually, I would on all LL games.

See regulation VII(h), and rules 4.10 and 4.11 in the 2021 rule book for details.

As far as Froggy goes, he might not do that again. Maybe now he'll listen to his coaches. If not, there's not much you can do.

We do and have had time limits for the games and I adhere to them a lot.  However if it is not an official game due to the amount of innings and we have no other game behind them I will allow for extra time if both coaches want to continue time.  If there is another game behind this one I won't I will end it at the proper time and let them deal with it.

 

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35 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

We do and have had time limits for the games and I adhere to them a lot.  However if it is not an official game due to the amount of innings and we have no other game behind them I will allow for extra time if both coaches want to continue time.  If there is another game behind this one I won't I will end it at the proper time and let them deal with it.

 

That's not true any more if your league adopts time limits. You can have an official game when you hit the 1hr-45min mark regardless of how many innings are played. You just finish any inning started before the time limit hits. This is a new rule for this year if the leagues choose to adopt it, and IMO they should. Refer to the rules I cited in my previous post.

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12 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

That's not true any more if your league adopts time limits. You can have an official game when you hit the 1hr-45min mark regardless of how many innings are played. You just finish any inning started before the time limit hits. This is a new rule for this year if the leagues choose to adopt it, and IMO they should. Refer to the rules I cited in my previous post.

Interesting when did they change the time?  I knew they adopted it but we always tried to make 4 in under 1:45.

But yea I found that 4.40 c 2

 

Oh crap that's in the sig changes for this year nice..

 

 

 

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I'd say the kids injury is not on you, it's on the coach and his staff, that behavior should be address in practice, you warned him multiple times, if the coach did and said nothing during the game... it's on him 2x

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3 minutes ago, stkjock said:

I'd say the kids injury is not on you, it's on the coach and his staff, that behavior should be address in practice, you warned him multiple times, if the coach did and said nothing during the game... it's on him 2x

Oh I was miffed at the coach during the game and after 1 for not being competitive and putting in a kid who could not throw a ball never mind pitch. 2 for putting that kid as catcher again without more training.

But eh it is 8-10U I know this season has been hard on overall attendance. The town usually has 5 teams at this age bracket they are struggling to make 3. 

So talents gonna be tough and harder to find.  

Between that and now that they have only 3 teams they are gonna be chewing thru pitchers counts very fast during a week of play.

Its quite possible he had no more arms to throw.  :shrug:

 

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I've had lots of youth games where I'm constantly reminding the catcher to take a step back, don't lunge for the ball over the plate, etc...

I do it to try to avoid what happened in your game.
So far no one has gotten hurt...but I get the occasional Catcher Interference.

 

 

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I'm sure the UIC meant well and I am certainly no attorney but...who is liable if an umpire draws a line in the dirt and tells F2 to stay behind that and he/she still manages to get whacked?

For 12U and under, I would consider speaking to the manager about it. Call time and go over and tell whomever took the plate meeting from that team. That way if there are any questions directed to the umpire(s) after the game ends, regarding an F2 injury, you can say I called time and spoke to the coach about F2's positioning. And hey...in this day and age, you might even be on camera having that conversation.

13U and up? We call CI if CI occurs. Other than that, the manager and coaches are responsible for the positioning of their players. I do wish more leagues would require some kind of F2 training for managers and coaches. There is a lot involved with the position beyond strapping up the gear and squatting down to receive pitches...

~Dawg

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  • 2 weeks later...

My local only use time limits in AAA, i.e. Minors/10U, when there is a game after - which means ONLY the first game Saturday since there are only 5 teams (down from 10, when I coached/my son played).

Found out they do accept ties though. Had a 2:30 game that HT tied 17-17 in bottom of 6. I was dejected when they scored that run, lol. 

Coaches said ties are good and I hightailed it out of there. 

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So to follow up I saw that catcher in another game where I helped my UiC out by doing the bases for him while he was at the plate.

last 2 innings "AJ" I see got the gear on and humped behind the plate.  WOW I thought kids still in there swinging, AWESOME!!

I stopped after the inning and talked to both AJ and the coach told him I was impressed he was keeping at catching and told him I was glad he was not hurt worse and hoped he was healing ok 

coach was his dad.  " Eh nothing a icecream on the way home did not fix, besides he's hardheaded like me cause we are both Italian's"

I laughed and went and saw my UiC and asked him how the last kid catching was, he said good why, I was like "well that was MY froggy that got whacked heh, looks like he learned eh"   He said they usually do after that 1st time.

 

hehe

 

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