BR's touch at 3rd--who's got it?

[Recontra]

R-1 and R-2. Batter clocks one to the gap in left on a field with no fence and the OB Track & Field track way out there. I start heading toward the 3rd baseline extended for a contested play on BR at the plate as BR rounds 3rd, so I'm 95 feet away from 3rd. I can't tell if BR misses 3rd or hits the inside front corner. BR safe at the plate. Immediate appeal after play for missing 3rd, and my partner on the bases immediately upholds the appeal and calls BR out (lead to the eventual ejection of his father once his yelling turned into calling the BU profane things--don't worry, we had the Home HC perform the act after consulting with the HC--no site supervisor there).

Have always pre-gamed that PU has all touches at 3rd. But, it certainly makes sense that BU would have BR's touch at 3rd, since he's got BR into 3rd. Never thought about it before. That seems to be the logical exception to the general rule that PU has all touches at 3rd. At the time of the appeal, I assumed it was my call as PU, but glad my partner immediately made the call, because he was right there and clearly saw the miss.

We got the call right, just not sure that we got the mechanics right. Had they appealed to me, I would have gotten together, because I was a mile away, and my partner was positioned for a play on BR at 3rd. What say the experts??

 

[Stk004]

In two-man PU has all touches of third EXCEPT the BR's touch of third. That belongs to BU. 

[maven]

You each had an angle on the touch. With nothing else to watch, you both saw it. So far, so good.

One umpire is primary and one is secondary. Your partner apparently was sure enough the BR missed 3B to rule on the appeal. 

It might still be worth getting together, depending on how sure you were that he touched.

[SeeingEyeDog]

I like the optics of getting together here. If only to discuss Ginger or Mary Anne...

Your partner had it, you didn't...and the crew got the call correct.

In addition to pre-gaming who has touches at 3rd, it sounds like adding appeals might also be worth discussing.

Thanks for sharing this, @Recontra.

~Dawg

[Replacematt]

1 hour ago, maven said:

You each had an angle on the touch. With nothing else to watch, you both saw it. So far, so good.

One umpire is primary and one is secondary. Your partner apparently was sure enough the BR missed 3B to rule on the appeal. 

It might still be worth getting together, depending on how sure you were that he touched.

I'm going to say that getting together here depends on how sure the partner was. This is their primary.

[Jimurray]

31 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

I like the optics of getting together here. If only to discuss Ginger or Mary Anne...

Your partner had it, you didn't...and the crew got the call correct.

In addition to pre-gaming who has touches at 3rd, it sounds like adding appeals might also be worth discussing.

Thanks for sharing this, @Recontra.

~Dawg

I picked this up from Jim Evans, either my notes from a Desert Classic or his “Maximizing the 2 Umpire System. It’s how I train and brief and I don’t think I’ve seen it in any other manual. “PU has all touches and tags at 3B except for the BR touch.” BU has that since he’s going to be there and has no other bases to cover anymore. I don’t see a need to get together if you both are aware of the responsibilities. 

[SH0102]

Definitely BU has that touch.  I am a big believer in “when there is nothing left to watch, watch something”.

So even if a manual said PU has all touches at third, as a BU I would ask myself, “this is the last runner on the bases, there is no play to call at third, should I just head back to A? Enjoy my break for the duration of this play?”

Now, this is in the manual, and I obviously was being silly, but my point is, last runner (BR) would be BU responsibility, and if BU was good, he didn’t even leave third base side working area after the touch bc he stayed home in case of a run down (possible extra action)

[beerguy55]

Well, obviously BR's father had the touch at third base...no need for umpires.

[aaluck]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

Well, obviously BR's father had the touch at third base...no need for umpires.

I don't always agree with you but I have to thank you for sending me to my weekend with a hard laugh!!!

[The Man in Blue]

On 5/14/2021 at 5:51 AM, SH0102 said:

Definitely BU has that touch.  I am a big believer in “when there is nothing left to watch, watch something”.

So even if a manual said PU has all touches at third, as a BU I would ask myself, “this is the last runner on the bases, there is no play to call at third, should I just head back to A? Enjoy my break for the duration of this play?”

Now, this is in the manual, and I obviously was being silly, but my point is, last runner (BR) would be BU responsibility, and if BU was good, he didn’t even leave third base side working area after the touch bc he stayed home in case of a run down (possible extra action)

ABSOLUTELY!  When I am PU and the ONLY play is at home plate ... It drives me nuts to see my partner already 3/4 of the way back to A after I make my call and look up.  NO!

If I am BU on those plays, once 3rd base is cleared (and I saw the touch) I am working my way slightly back to the middle and setting up to watch the play at the plate.  I don't have any call, but I have a second angle that might help my partner with a ball on the ground or other oddity.

[MadMax]

42 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

I don't have any call, but I have a second angle that might help my partner with a ball on the ground or other oddity.

This is especially helpful in amateur baseball, not only because a ball might be loose or on the ground (and the PU misses it; rare), but the BR performs an illegal slide. Some amateur leagues have “no headfirst slides at home” due to insurance / liability issues, and sometimes, the PU is so engrossed in the moment, he doesn’t see the goat amongst the sheep.