Early tag, but no appeal.

[Guest Jack]

1 out, runner on 3rd. Batter hits a deep fly to center. Runner on 3rd mistimes the tag and takes off for home before the center fielder catches the ball and proceeds to touch home plate and walk to his bench. Although the umpires saw the early tag, the defense did not and no appeal is made.

Should the umpires call the runner out before the next play starts? Or, if no appeal is made, does the run count despite the early tag?

[Replacematt]

17 minutes ago, Guest Jack said:

1 out, runner on 3rd. Batter hits a deep fly to center. Runner on 3rd mistimes the tag and takes off for home before the center fielder catches the ball and proceeds to touch home plate and walk to his bench. Although the umpires saw the early tag, the defense did not and no appeal is made.

Should the umpires call the runner out before the next play starts? Or, if no appeal is made, does the run count despite the early tag?

Without a proper appeal, an appealable infraction is ignored. 

[SH0102]

5 hours ago, Guest Jack said:

1 out, runner on 3rd. Batter hits a deep fly to center. Runner on 3rd mistimes the tag and takes off for home before the center fielder catches the ball and proceeds to touch home plate and walk to his bench. Although the umpires saw the early tag, the defense did not and no appeal is made.

Should the umpires call the runner out before the next play starts? Or, if no appeal is made, does the run count despite the early tag?

Missed bases when running, early departure on tags, are always ignored unless appealed.

[Thunderheads]

2 answers above cover you completely ..........  "like it never happened"  

[ArchAngel72]

do your level headed best not to "bird dog" it too

 

[noumpere]

If the defense doesn't care, why should we care?

Note that FED USED TO have this an an out call made automatically be the umpire.  They removed this, and matched the other codes' requirement for an appeal, several (many by now) years ago.

[Double Up]

9 hours ago, Matt said:

Without a proper appeal, an appealable infraction is ignored. 

Using the same scenario, runner fails to tag up, crosses home plate but the defense throws the ball into third base and the F5 steps on the bag. 

The defense must formally announce there intention to appeal, is that correct?     It's not like after the runner leaves early and F5 steps on the base w/ the ball the rule is enforced, right?   The defense must declare that they are appearing R3 leaving early, correct?

[wolfe_man]

28 minutes ago, Double Up said:

Using the same scenario, runner fails to tag up, crosses home plate but the defense throws the ball into third base and the F5 steps on the bag. 

The defense must formally announce there intention to appeal, is that correct?     It's not like after the runner leaves early and F5 steps on the base w/ the ball the rule is enforced, right?   The defense must declare that they are appearing R3 leaving early, correct?

I can't speak for other codes, but in NFHS rules they do not need to say what they're doing.  If they immediately throw the ball to third base, then I know why they're doing it and will call the out if he left early.  

For NFHS, they can verbally appeal as well, they are not required to throw over and tag the base.

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, Double Up said:

Using the same scenario, runner fails to tag up, crosses home plate but the defense throws the ball into third base and the F5 steps on the bag. 

The defense must formally announce there intention to appeal, is that correct?     It's not like after the runner leaves early and F5 steps on the base w/ the ball the rule is enforced, right?   The defense must declare that they are appearing R3 leaving early, correct?

It must be "an unmistakable act."  A declaration meets that requirement, but so do other actions -- and it's likely to be true in the scenario you present.

 

What wouldn't be true, is if there was also an R2 who was advancing and the ball is thrown to third and F5 steps on the bag while he is in the act of tagging R2.

[Replacematt]

1 hour ago, Double Up said:

Using the same scenario, runner fails to tag up, crosses home plate but the defense throws the ball into third base and the F5 steps on the bag. 

The defense must formally announce there intention to appeal, is that correct?     It's not like after the runner leaves early and F5 steps on the base w/ the ball the rule is enforced, right?   The defense must declare that they are appearing R3 leaving early, correct?

<looks at question>

<looks at name of who is asking>

<looks at question again>

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, Double Up said:

Using the same scenario, runner fails to tag up, crosses home plate but the defense throws the ball into third base and the F5 steps on the bag. 

The defense must formally announce there intention to appeal, is that correct?     It's not like after the runner leaves early and F5 steps on the base w/ the ball the rule is enforced, right?   The defense must declare that they are appearing R3 leaving early, correct?

Do you  honestly require the defense to say "I doth formally declare to appealeth the early departure of our honorable opponent"?

 

If it looks like an appeal, it's an appeal.  If it looks accidental, it's not.

[BLWizzRanger]

I think my standard will be that, while touching the bag, the fielder looks at me with puppy dog eyes... that will suffice for me... 

[Double Up]

2 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Do you  honestly require the defense to say "I doth formally declare to appealeth the early departure of our honorable opponent"?

 

If it looks like an appeal, it's an appeal.  If it looks accidental, it's not.

lol

[MadMax]

8 hours ago, noumpere said:

Note that FED USED TO have this an an out call made automatically be the umpire.

Still in South Carolina NFHS, unless @lawump has an update for us. 

[lawump]

5 hours ago, MadMax said:

Still in South Carolina NFHS, unless @lawump has an update for us. 

Update: nothing has changed; “(s)till in South Carolina NFHS”.

[Senor Azul]

Out of curiosity I looked up the South Carolina governing bodies for high school sports. Apparently, there are two—the South Carolina High School League and a smaller entity called the South Carolina Independent School Association (SCISA). Here’s what their respective websites say about appeals--

RULES AND REGULATIONS GOVERNING ATHLETIC CONTESTS SPONSORED BY THE SOUTH CAROLINA HIGH SCHOOL LEAGUE FOR 2020-21

2. National Federation Baseball Rules will be used in all games.

a. Dead ball appeals will not be recognized.

South Carolina Independent School Association (SCISA) Non-Appeal Play

On failing to proper tag-up or a runner missing a base, SCISA umpires will declare the runners out once the ball is declared dead.

[Stan W.]

On 4/20/2021 at 9:02 AM, noumpere said:

If the defense doesn't care, why should we care?

Note that FED USED TO have this an an out call made automatically be the umpire.  They removed this, and matched the other codes' requirement for an appeal, several (many by now) years ago.

I remember that as well.......and I hated that interpretation.....that was early in my FED career and I'm glad they changed it  

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, Stan W. said:

I remember that as well.......and I hated that interpretation.....that was early in my FED career and I'm glad they changed it  

So...you're allowed to appeal...but you don't have to.

"Time, Blue?   Did he leave early?"

"Is that an appeal??"

"I don't have to appeal"

"Oh, right...he's out"

EVERYONE ON FIELD: "Why don't you just appeal?!?!?!"

...because...well...

"Blue, we're appealing runner missed second base"

"Yeah yeah yeah, hold your horses...if you'd give me a damned minute I would have got to that - you don't have to appeal...sheeeesh"

AND

"Well, I'm appealing in case you didn't see it"

"Well, if I didn't see it you're not gonna win the appeal, are you?"

[MT73]

On 4/20/2021 at 11:57 AM, Double Up said:

Using the same scenario, runner fails to tag up, crosses home plate but the defense throws the ball into third base and the F5 steps on the bag. 

The defense must formally announce there intention to appeal, is that correct?     It's not like after the runner leaves early and F5 steps on the base w/ the ball the rule is enforced, right?   The defense must declare that they are appearing R3 leaving early, correct?

In OBR ( and I assume other codes) an appeal must be obvious.

‘And, in OBR, the ball must be alive and the appeal  non verbal.

Throwing to a base to double off a runner who is scrambling back is obvious.

in your situation 9 times out of 10 the defensive coach will be screaming, “ Throw to 3rd!”

But even if they don’t I would consider this a continuous play appeal and honor it.