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Judgement calls and HC requesting help


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3 hours ago, Forest Ump said:

My experience has taught me that as a PU, tight plays at 1st  often look like the runner beat it. When in fact my base umpire is spot on with his call. Give that some thought.

It's probably just easier to remember that PU does not get input on if BR beat a throw. It is not something that BU can request nor is it something PU can entertain. I will say there is an infinitesimally-small exception, and that's if something incapacitates BU on said play.

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Also, make sure to pre-game your possible conferences on plays at 1B...specifically swipe tags, pulled feet or running lane violations. Remember it's only HC's that can ask U1 to check with your partn

If you're looking for replies..... considering it's one of those traveling road-show coaches, "Go f--- yourself" is a classic.  An "Ol' Reliable," if you will.

I actually do disagree with this, to a certain degree. The optics are often more important than being "right".   Unless egregious, the optics of one ump being "overruled" by another on a simple j

3 hours ago, Matt said:

It's probably just easier to remember that PU does not get input on if BR beat a throw. It is not something that BU can request nor is it something PU can entertain. I will say there is an infinitesimally-small exception, and that's if something incapacitates BU on said play.

I think you missed my point Matt. My comment only pertains to the OP thinking the runner was safe. The PU has the same bad angle as the coach when it comes to a bang bang play at first. What the original poster perceived as safe most likely was not.

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15 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Who's to say your judgment is more right than his?

As I always say when giving clinics or talking to young officials, and as I've said in numerous posts here: this^^^

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15 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

  Who's to say your judgment is more right than his?

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - at this point I don't care if the call is right.  Unless it's blatantly obvious, you're throwing the game down the toilet by encouraging this kind of "help".

Yeah, that's what I was thinking when I told him we would go with his call.  So even though I thought the BR beat the throw, it was a close play, He could be wrong, I could be wrong.

My board is saying getting the call correct is the priority and I don't think anyone disagrees with this.  But the step before, when to conference, is the gray area.  Its an art not a science.

 

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1 hour ago, BLWizzRanger said:

My board is saying getting the call correct is the priority and I don't think anyone disagrees with this

I actually do disagree with this, to a certain degree.

The optics are often more important than being "right".   Unless egregious, the optics of one ump being "overruled" by another on a simple judgment call is much more detrimental to game management than whether or not the runner did actually beat the throw by half a step.   I would say it's often more important to assert yourself and own your judgment.   Appeasement is a political maneuver and should only be used in very specific scenarios.

Those mistakes in judgment, if they even are really mistakes, work out in the end - both teams will get an equal number of breaks over the course of a season...but you can't undo showing the coaches that you can be manipulated, or are unsure of your calls, or that they can always try to get a second chance at a different call...and once you give them an inch they'll take a mile.   Any coach that comes out and argues the runner beat the throw by half a step...or six inches...or tie goes to the runner...should get "talk to the hand" and be sent back to the bench.    A full step, I can understand an argument, but even that shouldn't go anywhere most of the time...he didn't have control of the ball or he was off the bag are a different discussion.

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1 hour ago, BLWizzRanger said:

Yeah, that's what I was thinking when I told him we would go with his call.  So even though I thought the BR beat the throw, it was a close play, He could be wrong, I could be wrong.

My board is saying getting the call correct is the priority and I don't think anyone disagrees with this.  But the step before, when to conference, is the gray area.  Its an art not a science.

 

"Getting the call correct" does NOT mean "one person judges it one way and a second person judges it a different way so the second opinion rules."

 

It means "one person saw part of the play and a second person saw a different part of the play that had the first person seen it s/he would have ruled (not judged) differently."

So, U1 sees the ball beat the runner.  U1 does not see a pulled foot, a ball on the ground, etc. -- that would have him / RULE differently.

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"Getting the call correct" does NOT mean "one person judges it one way and a second person judges it a different way so the second opinion rules."
 
It means "one person saw part of the play and a second person saw a different part of the play that had the first person seen it s/he would have ruled (not judged) differently."
So, U1 sees the ball beat the runner.  U1 does not see a pulled foot, a ball on the ground, etc. -- that would have him / RULE differently.

YES! An outstanding analysis of “get the call right” blabbering from dugouts.


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3 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

The optics are often more important than being "right".   Unless egregious, the optics of one ump being "overruled" by another on a simple judgment call is much more detrimental to game management than whether or not the runner did actually beat the throw by half a step.   I would say it's often more important to assert yourself and own your judgment.

 

And as I recall, @BLWizzRangeris a new umpire.  One of the things coaches are gonna do, is test a new umpire - even if he's just new to *them*.  They're not always coming out for the "good of the game - getting the calls right!", flag-waving deal;  they're sometimes coming out to see if they can't get over on you.

I've been umpiring 18 years now.  But I'm only in my 3rd year in Texas, AND I'm in my second chapter in that time.  So there are a number of schools I'm seeing now that never had me before, since '20 was such a cluster.  I guaran-damn-tee I've had visits from coaches "testing out this guy," based on what and how they argued a call.

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Agreed, @HokieUmp...if an umpire is new to the profession, if an umpire is new to an association, new to a school or team or coach...that umpire should expect to be tested by the manager. And what happens in that first interaction will set the tone for the future, regardless of why that interaction is happening. And we are all judged from the moment we step on the field until the end of the game and we leave the field.

~Dawg

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