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Infield Fly Runners into dugout


Guest CJ A

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Guest CJ A

Bases loaded with 1 out.  Infield Fly called and second baseman doesnt make the catch.  The First base runners advances to second and is called out by the Umpire as the second baseman threw to the shortstop who did not tag the runner but the bag only.  The umpire missed the call thinking it was a force out.  That equated to 3 outs although it was a missed call.  The first base runner left the field of play and entered the dugout as well as the third base runner after crossing home plate.  In the spirit of the game and because its little league the opposing coach and I agreed to place the runners back on the bases and have the infield fly remove the batter for the second out.  Very curious as to what an official ruling would be in this case. 

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An official ruling would include a run being scored since F3 advanced at his own risk and was not retired. Further, since R1 was improperly declared out at 2B, correcting the error of the umpire would

If the umpire makes a rules error (as here) and corrects it, fix it and go on -- just as you did.

A runner can be called out for "abandonment."  But, that's when the player / coach make the error, not when the umpire makes an error -- in that case, the player didn't really abandon, he just followe

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An official ruling would include a run being scored since F3 advanced at his own risk and was not retired. Further, since R1 was improperly declared out at 2B, correcting the error of the umpire would place him back at 2B. R2 should be at 3B and there should be 2 outs.

Just because it's Little League does not mean umpires can MSU resulting in teams being placed at a disadvantage (offense) or given an advantage (defense).

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27 minutes ago, Kevin_K said:

An official ruling would include a run being scored since F3 advanced at his own risk and was not retired. Further, since R1 was improperly declared out at 2B, correcting the error of the umpire would place him back at 2B. R2 should be at 3B and there should be 2 outs.

Just because it's Little League does not mean umpires can MSU resulting in teams being placed at a disadvantage (offense) or given an advantage (defense).

Yes -- I got confused as to what happened before / after the missed call.

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On 4/13/2021 at 7:00 PM, Kevin_K said:

An official ruling would include a run being scored since F3 advanced at his own risk and was not retired. Further, since R1 was improperly declared out at 2B, correcting the error of the umpire would place him back at 2B. R2 should be at 3B and there should be 2 outs.

Just because it's Little League does not mean umpires can MSU resulting in teams being placed at a disadvantage (offense) or given an advantage (defense).

Thanks for the responses. Myself, the other coach, and umpires were under the impression that if a player returns to the dugout they are called out regardless of the possible miscall by the umpires that “made them retreat to the dugout”. If there is confusion or a possible challenged call to “not enter the dugout” and wait for a ruling. Agreed that at any level of play it’s not good to miss calls/rules. The reference to Little League was only meant to imply that we tried our best to make it right knowing it was a regular season game with little impact at this point in the season. If you could expand as to the dugout ruling or does it come with situations like this where the player wouldn’t be called out for entering?

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15 minutes ago, Guest CJA said:

Thanks for the responses. Myself, the other coach, and umpires were under the impression that if a player returns to the dugout they are called out regardless of the possible miscall by the umpires that “made them retreat to the dugout”. If there is confusion or a possible challenged call to “not enter the dugout” and wait for a ruling. Agreed that at any level of play it’s not good to miss calls/rules. The reference to Little League was only meant to imply that we tried our best to make it right knowing it was a regular season game with little impact at this point in the season. If you could expand as to the dugout ruling or does it come with situations like this where the player wouldn’t be called out for entering?

A runner can be called out for "abandonment."  But, that's when the player / coach make the error, not when the umpire makes an error -- in that case, the player didn't really abandon, he just followed the umpire's direction.

When you leave (before COVID) a baseball game with thousands of fans, the police might direct you to drive the wrong way on a one-way street -- are they going to give you a ticket for that?  What if the police officer who directed you did so 30 seconds after the "special traffic order" expired?

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58 minutes ago, noumpere said:

A runner can be called out for "abandonment."  But, that's when the player / coach make the error, not when the umpire makes an error -- in that case, the player didn't really abandon, he just followed the umpire's direction.

When you leave (before COVID) a baseball game with thousands of fans, the police might direct you to drive the wrong way on a one-way street -- are they going to give you a ticket for that?  What if the police officer who directed you did so 30 seconds after the "special traffic order" expired?

 

Ahhh  BUT

 

Slightly different scenario but same concern.

B1 hits a fly ball to F9, R1 took off for 2B without tagging F9's attempt to throw out R1 at 1B is high and goes over the fence OB.

Umpire then based on R1 has not reached 2nd yet and was retreating to 1st tells R1  you go to 3rd base.   R1 without tagging up yet turns and runs to 2nd and then to 3rd.

defense seeing he has not tagged up gets the ball waits for umpire to call play. F1 steps off mound and makes an appeal to 1st.

R3 is now out on appeal even though Umpire directed him to 3rd.

It is up to the player to know they still have to tag up. I was told in LL class that we cannot tell the runner tag up before you go to 3rd

It's sometimes a cruel game...

 

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1 hour ago, ArchAngel72 said:

 

Ahhh  BUT

 

Slightly different scenario but same concern.

B1 hits a fly ball to F9, R1 took off for 2B without tagging F9's attempt to throw out R1 at 1B is high and goes over the fence OB.

Umpire then based on R1 has not reached 2nd yet and was retreating to 1st tells R1  you go to 3rd base.   R1 without tagging up yet turns and runs to 2nd and then to 3rd.

defense seeing he has not tagged up gets the ball waits for umpire to call play. F1 steps off mound and makes an appeal to 1st.

R3 is now out on appeal even though Umpire directed him to 3rd.

It is up to the player to know they still have to tag up. I was told in LL class that we cannot tell the runner tag up before you go to 3rd

It's sometimes a cruel game...

 

Different pay.  If the umpire said, "Go to third and you don't need to retouch first" then it would be similar.

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