Hey Blue, let's play ball...this field is just a little wet.

[SeeingEyeDog]

https://www.silive.com/education/2021/04/tottenville-hs-softball-player-broke-ankle-in-fall-on-wet-field-now-city-settles-suit-for-300k.html

No mention of the umpires in this article and of course every jurisdiction and league has its own regulations regarding who is responsible for the field and making decisions about playing or not playing and when...

Make sure you're familiar with your responsibilities.

~Dawg

[Mudisfun]

The article, at least for me, is behind a pay wall.

[ArchAngel72]

same same

[SeeingEyeDog]

Sorry about the paywall...I was unaware.

A municipality was sued for $300K by the parents of a teenager who suffered an injury on a wet field...

~Dawg

[philaump]

On 4/22/2021 at 10:15 PM, SeeingEyeDog said:

Sorry about the paywall...I was unaware.

A municipality was sued for $300K by the parents of a teenager who suffered an injury on a wet field...

~Dawg

That is EXACTLY why I would say no.  It's a liability issue, and I refuse to be pushed into a situation like that.

A few years back- I cleared the field due to rain for a minimum of 30 minutes to allow the storm to pass over & to apply diamond dry.  The HT coach sent his players out on the field after 15 minutes to loosen up, after I told him to wait 30 minutes.  He wound up watching the game from the parking lot.

This same coach tried to pull another one with me- I went to a game where one team had 7 players show up, and his team had 8 players.  I told this coach that by rule this game CAN NOT BE STARTED, and I added on that it would also be a liability issue if I started the game.  He said that he would accept any liability.  I walked off the field- the first call I made when I got to my car, was to my assignor.  I let him know that since neither team had 9 players to start the game, it was a double forfeit, and what the coach tried to pull.  He said I did the right thing.

[SeeingEyeDog]

Yup, that's the right move @philaump. I've also had lots of coaches argue being over the time limit. Same deal...if the crew extends the game, we are assuming liability unnecessarily.

The game is over, coaches. We are over the time limit. If you want to stay out here and play? That's your decision...

~Dawg

[Vegas_Ump]

I have been on a LL crew where the HT manager said the field was fit to play.  And the PU vehemently disagreed.  There was quite an imbroglio for a while.

The PU then said, "Ill go to my van, dress up and come back.  As soon as you hand me the baseballs, I will call the game for unsafe field conditions."

I have had "play with less than 9" (before this year's rue change).  The manager said he had the league VP on the phone from LAX.  He said to play the game.  I said no.  I gave them 10 minutes to field a team, and then I left.  Yup!  I called the assigner and told him what happened.

As a volunteer umpire, I am not putting any liability on me or the league for safety issues that are clearly covered in the rules.

Mike

Las Vegas

[noumpere]

Some insurance will cover you in this situation -- either NASO or ABUA, iirc.

[SeeingEyeDog]

4 hours ago, Vegas_Ump said:

I have been on a LL crew where the HT manager said the field was fit to play.  And the PU vehemently disagreed.  There was quite an imbroglio for a while.

The PU then said, "Ill go to my van, dress up and come back.  As soon as you hand me the baseballs, I will call the game for unsafe field conditions."

I have had "play with less than 9" (before this year's rue change).  The manager said he had the league VP on the phone from LAX.  He said to play the game.  I said no.  I gave them 10 minutes to field a team, and then I left.  Yup!  I called the assigner and told him what happened.

As a volunteer umpire, I am not putting any liability on me or the league for safety issues that are clearly covered in the rules.

Mike

Las Vegas

THIS! THIS! THIS! ...and THAT! All day...all night long! Yes, sir! 

This is part of the reason why we are encouraged to arrive early for games. For most levels (check local rules and regulations), the decision to start a game is the home team manager's. Once the plate meeting ends, the field (and the decision to start or continue a game) belongs to the umpires. I have lost count of the number of times I have arrived at a field and there's people on the field diligently working to get the grounds prepared for a game and it is obvious it won't be. But, because they have been out there for two hours or whatever, they believe they are entitled to play the game. I've approached the HTM and indicated that they were all welcome to continue working but, unless significant progress was made, I would cancel the game immediately after the plate meeting. In some cases, they call it a night/day and we all go home and my crew gets half-fee. Or we have a plate meeting, we call the game and we all go home and my crew gets half-fee.

Sometimes, I wonder if I shouldn't just come down for the game and the regular time and not try to give them a heads-up that I'll cancel the game anyway...

~Dawg 

[philaump]

On 5/7/2021 at 6:14 PM, Vegas_Ump said:

I have been on a LL crew where the HT manager said the field was fit to play.  And the PU vehemently disagreed.  There was quite an imbroglio for a while.

The PU then said, "Ill go to my van, dress up and come back.  As soon as you hand me the baseballs, I will call the game for unsafe field conditions."

I have had "play with less than 9" (before this year's rue change).  The manager said he had the league VP on the phone from LAX.  He said to play the game.  I said no.  I gave them 10 minutes to field a team, and then I left.  Yup!  I called the assigner and told him what happened.

As a volunteer umpire, I am not putting any liability on me or the league for safety issues that are clearly covered in the rules.

Mike

Las Vegas

If I am correct, you can NOT start a game with less than 9, but can finish with less than 9 (barring an ejection)

[Kevin_K]

3 minutes ago, philaump said:

If I am correct, you can NOT start a game with less than 9, but can finish with less than 9 (barring an ejection)

You can in NJ this year:

NJSIAA Baseball and Softball modification for the 2021 Season only: The game may be started with 8 players (no out in the 9th batting order spot), however must finish with eight players to be counted as a game. If the lineup is reduced to seven players, the game is over and should be reported as a forfeit

[noumpere]

6 minutes ago, philaump said:

If I am correct, you can NOT start a game with less than 9, but can finish with less than 9 (barring an ejection)

1) Depends on the rules code

2) I don't know what you mean by "barring an ejection" -- in FED, it doesn't  matter how you get down to 8 (ejection, injury, player needs to leave to finish his homework), you can still play

[philaump]

28 minutes ago, noumpere said:

1) Depends on the rules code

2) I don't know what you mean by "barring an ejection" -- in FED, it doesn't  matter how you get down to 8 (ejection, injury, player needs to leave to finish his homework), you can still play

1. Doesn't it say in the LL rule book that you MUST start a game with 9 players?  IIRC- the book states that you can finish with 8, if you go from 9 to 8 as the result of anything except an ejection. In that case, the vacated spot is an out.

[Vegas_Ump]

9 minutes ago, philaump said:

1. Doesn't it say in the LL rule book that you MUST start a game with 9 players?  IIRC- the book states that you can finish with 8, if you go from 9 to 8 as the result of anything except an ejection. In that case, the vacated spot is an out.

Rule change this year:  Leagues are allowed to codify what to do if you only have 8 players.  LL did this to promote more games after the year hiatus from COVID.  It's listed in regulations in the book.

Mike

Las Vegas