5.09(b)(7)

[Sut'n Blue 73]

Any runner is out when: “He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has gone through, or by an infielder and no other infielder has a chance to make a play on the ball....”

Hypothetical:

R2, infield playing along outfield grass. Batter hits ground ball that hits R2 on his way to third before going by F5. Ball bounces off R2 and straight toward F6 who fields and throws to first too late to get BR. R2 is safe at 3rd because F6 had a chance to make a play on the ball?

[noumpere 3,330]

Unless I am misreading your play, R2 is out.  BR is awarded first.   If there was an R1, he is forced to advance to second.

[Kevin_K 880]

A fair batted ball is dead immediately when it touches a runner before touching any fielder and before passing any fielder other than F1  

[Sut'n Blue 73]

What I was getting at is the “and” part. The language piqued my curiosity because it can be read to say:

A runner is out when two things happen: 1) he is touched by the ball, etc. AND 2) no other infielder has a chance to make a play. In my hypothetical I was trying to give an example where the runner was hit but another infielder did have a chance to make a play so only one of the conditions was met.

[Kevin_K 880]

The part you are failing to include is that when the runner is hit by the ball when those conditions are met the ball is immediately dead, thus eliminating any concern about another fielder having the opportunity to make any other play.

[noumpere 3,330]

14 hours ago, Sut'n Blue said:

What I was getting at is the “and” part. The language piqued my curiosity because it can be read to say:

A runner is out when two things happen: 1) he is touched by the ball, etc. AND 2) no other infielder has a chance to make a play. In my hypothetical I was trying to give an example where the runner was hit but another infielder did have a chance to make a play so only one of the conditions was met.

The "and" applies to the second clause (after the "or).

 

IOW, it's NOT:

A runner is out when:

(a) A runner is hit before the ball has passed a fielder or after a ball has passed a fielder

-AND-

(b) no other fielder has a play

 

It IS:

A runner is out when:

(a) A runner is hit before the ball has passed a fielder

-OR_

(b) after a ball has passed a fielder and no other fielder has a play

[maven 5,007]

2 hours ago, noumpere said:

It IS:

A runner is out when:

(a) A runner is hit before the ball has passed a fielder

-OR_

(b) after a ball has passed a fielder and no other fielder has a play

Or, as we might put it without any ambiguity:

Hardly surprising that umpires stumble on the logic of the syntax.

(For the unwashed, that expression means roughly, for any fair batted ball, runner, and fielder where the ball hits the runner, if either the ball has not passed a fielder or there is no other fielder who can make a play, then the runner is out. You're welcome.)

[Jimurray 903]

8 hours ago, maven said:

Or, as we might put it without any ambiguity:

Hardly surprising that umpires stumble on the logic of the syntax.

(For the unwashed, that expression means roughly, for any fair batted ball, runner, and fielder where the ball hits the runner, if either the ball has not passed a fielder or there is no other fielder who can make a play, then the runner is out. You're welcome.)

That states some of the conditions when that runner is out but does not include all. If there is no other fielder that could make a play the runner would still be out even if he was behind drawn in infielders and the ball did not go through or by an infielder. If the ball went through or by one of those drawn in infielders and hit the runner behind him the runner would not be out unless you judged another infielder could make a play on that ball. 

"6.10(a)(11) A fair ball touches him on fair territory before touching a fielder. If a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, and touches a runner immediately back of him, or touches the runner after having been deflected by a fielder, the umpire shall not declare the runner out for being touched by a batted ball. In making such decision the umpire must be convinced that the ball passed through, or by, the fielder, and that no other infielder had the chance to make a play on the ball."

In OBR and NCAA a runner hiy by a base hit that passed, not close enough to be through or by, drawn in infielders would be out.

[MT73 41]

Yes.

‘The and part applies to a ball that is through or by.

‘Through or by means that the struck runner would not be out unless another infielder had a play on the ball.

NFHS has a different interpretation—-if the entire infield is playing in front of the runner who is struck then he is not out.

[Sut'n Blue 73]

Thank you all.

I’ve read the rule I don’t know how many times and for some reason it just looked different this time. I’ve always applied it as per the responses but wondered if I had been missing something - I guess the good news is I hadn’t.