Good Ejection or not?

[ERW27]

Here is a recent situation I experienced and I wouldn't mind some feedback. 
Simple grounder to first flip to pitcher covering. U1 is quite close to the base. F1 makes the play and turns away from foul line (as every pitcher does on a 3-1 putout). He takes 2 maybe 3 steps and bumps into U1. He is then ejected for making contact with an official.  Thoughts? 

[Thunderheads]

14 minutes ago, ERW27 said:

Here is a recent situation I experienced and I wouldn't mind some feedback. 
Simple grounder to first flip to pitcher covering. U1 is quite close to the base. F1 makes the play and turns away from foul line (as every pitcher does on a 3-1 putout). He takes 2 maybe 3 steps and bumps into U1. He is then ejected for making contact with an official.  Thoughts? 

Thoughts?  This umpire is the REASON coaches HATE US before we even do anything!  Making crap up and causing/looking for trouble.  This is NOTHING all the time, every time, everywhere!  This kind of stuff makes ALL OF US look bad!

[ERW27]

Thank you. I was not the ejecting official. I considered it incidental contact. He said anytime any player touches you he needs to go. Sigh. 

[Thunderheads]

5 minutes ago, ERW27 said:

Thank you. I was not the ejecting official. I considered it incidental contact. He said anytime any player touches you he needs to go. Sigh. 

I know you weren't the official ....

Ugghhhhhh!  So stupid!  Like I said .... gives ALL OF US a bad name!

[wolfe_man]

Please tell me this wasn't LL or lower levels of baseball where there hardly could be an intent to "bump" the official?

Even at higher levels, you'd better be really sure he intended to bump you before you toss them.  I mean he hustled over, you got the out and then you toss him?  I would love to have been there to see the aftermath of that one.

How long has the official been at it?  Old or young? Sorry, I need more details.

[ERW27]

Multiple decades. This was a college game.

[Thunderheads]

3 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

Please tell me this wasn't LL or lower levels of baseball where there hardly could be an intent to "bump" the official?

Even at higher levels, you'd better be really sure he intended to bump you before you toss them.  I mean he hustled over, you got the out and then you toss him?  I would love to have been there to see the aftermath of that one.

How long has the official been at it?  Old or young? Sorry, I need more details.

Any age official needs to understand the generic grasp of this before stepping on the field.  I mean, please!

[Thunderheads]

2 minutes ago, ERW27 said:

Multiple decades. This was a college game.

OH MY GOD ......... makes it SOOOO much worse!  

[wolfe_man]

1 minute ago, Thunderheads said:

Any age official needs to understand the generic grasp of this before stepping on the field.  I mean, please!

I don't disagree, but I need more information about the official.  I'm trying to get facts before I go and take man's officials license from him.

[wolfe_man]

5 minutes ago, ERW27 said:

Multiple decades. This was a college game.

And there was nothing earlier that happened to make the umpire think that F1 was maybe trying to bump him for some reason?  No balk calls, too many no's on check-swings, etc.? 

Just out of the blue U2 tosses him because he touched an umpire?

IMHO, sounds like we're missing something.  I don't know how an umpire rises to that level and stays there for decades with an ego like that - unless we're missing something.

[ERW27]

It was first inning. 

[wolfe_man]

5 hours ago, ERW27 said:

It was first inning. 

 I can't cover for him any longer. I tried...  

[maven]

Hm, something is fishy here. College-level umpire (even D3 are really good around here) and he ejects a player?

I'm guessing the description is not entirely accurate. I'd prefer to hear the umpire's version before judging the adequacy of the EJ. We can afford to be a bit more judicious and circumspect with this brother umpire—not saying he's right, only reserving judgment.

IF everything happened as described, and IF the contact was clearly incidental, THEN there should be no EJ. 

[BLWizzRanger]

43 minutes ago, ERW27 said:

Thank you. I was not the ejecting official. I considered it incidental contact. He said anytime any player touches you he needs to go. Sigh. 

Umpire interference with the catcher, the catcher has to go? I hope he had some caveats....

[ERW27]

Maven that was my question to him. He said there does not need to be intent. You make contact in any form, you need to go!

[UMP45]

1 hour ago, ERW27 said:

Multiple decades. This was a college game.

Sounds like multiple decades of one game experience!

[SH0102]

As a new NCAA umpire myself, I find this really difficult to grasp.  First off, in the NCAA, any player ejection automatically carries at least a one game suspension, and a filing of an ejection report with your assignor, conference, and national coordinator of umpires.  I have a feeling this umpire is going to be getting a phone call about this ejection.

I too prefer to reserve judgment before condemning another umpire, I have utmost respect for umpires and know how many mistakes I have made along the way, and will surely continue to make some in the future.

But there are certain things you better be 100% about and ejections is one of them, especially when they carry additional penalties.

I grasp that the rulebook says contact is an automatic ejection, but this is during an ejection-worthy incident, like argument with the official, demonstrative actions (batter flailing after a called strike three they hate and hits the umpire).  Not a "course of the play".

Heck, if the player contacted the official, I would argue that U1 was too close to the play to begin with if the player's natural momentum took them into it.

I think the general consensus is pretty sound....unless there was reason to believe it was intentional and retaliatory, it was not deserved.

[cyclonehokiece]

I had one last year working solo with a steal of home on a passed ball, I break to home with pitcher to get a better angle of , he stops earlier than I thought he would, boom, pitcher goes down.  Not once did it enter my mind to eject the kid.  I apologized to the coach, and he just said “kid’s fine, I’m just glad you are out there hustling on that play”.

You have to have a feel for the game.  You will know when someone is going after you to contact you.  The situation in the OP does not sound like it.

[ERW27]

What made the situation worse since it was the starting pitcher. His suspension is 4 games not 1. 

[aaluck]

2 hours ago, ERW27 said:

What made the situation worse since it was the starting pitcher. His suspension is 4 games not 1. 

This is a strange one. I know baseball and football are completely different, but I was watching some bloopers and a college quarterback flat hit the ref in the face with his arm--hard--while celebrating a touchdown. He played the rest of the game.

 

Also sounds like HIS position may not have been the best to make the call and stay out of the way. 

[Replacematt]

 

5 hours ago, ShaunH said:

As a new NCAA umpire myself, I find this really difficult to grasp.  First off, in the NCAA, any player ejection automatically carries at least a one game suspension, and a filing of an ejection report with your assignor, conference, and national coordinator of umpires.  I have a feeling this umpire is going to be getting a phone call about this ejection.

I too prefer to reserve judgment before condemning another umpire, I have utmost respect for umpires and know how many mistakes I have made along the way, and will surely continue to make some in the future.

But there are certain things you better be 100% about and ejections is one of them, especially when they carry additional penalties.

I grasp that the rulebook says contact is an automatic ejection, but this is during an ejection-worthy incident, like argument with the official, demonstrative actions (batter flailing after a called strike three they hate and hits the umpire).  Not a "course of the play".

Heck, if the player contacted the official, I would argue that U1 was too close to the play to begin with if the player's natural momentum took them into it.

I think the general consensus is pretty sound....unless there was reason to believe it was intentional and retaliatory, it was not deserved.

If you're new, I'm assuming you've yet to have an NCAA ejection.

I don't know of a single one that hasn't had a phone call/email from the respective coordinator anyway. An unjustified one is going to result in much more than that.

[BT_Blue]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

 

If you're new, I'm assuming you've yet to have an NCAA ejection.

I don't know of a single one that hasn't had a phone call/email from the respective coordinator anyway. An unjustified one is going to result in much more than that.

I mean... every NCAA video is concluded with Hiler saying "do what is right, do what is defendable."

From the description... it sounds like neither.

That being said. This is a college game. There HAS to be video! Even if it is a wide angle static camera behind the back stop. There still is video.

[dntrllycare]

...how does this end with only one ejection?

[Recontra]

"He bumped me!"  "He bumped into me!"  One is really, really bad. One is nothing. 😃

Future Trivia Question:  Number of times in the history of college baseball that a defensive player was ejected for bumping an umpire immediately after successfully making a great defensive hustle play for an out?

Answer:  One.

[Replacematt]

21 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

I mean... every NCAA video is concluded with Hiler saying "do what is right, do what is defendable."

From the description... it sounds like neither.

That being said. This is a college game. There HAS to be video! Even if it is a wide angle static camera behind the back stop. There still is video.

I had an email exchange for one of my ejections that was conducted almost with the speed of DMs asking why I was the ejecting umpire. There is a huge concern with the defensibility piece in any ejection, and in this particular case, although the ejection was warranted, it was questionable as to if I should have been the one getting it. The NCAA wants to make sure that every detail is buttoned up so that they can address an institution's complaints or concerns without delay.

I'm with you...there is video somewhere. @ERW27, I do think that you would want to bring this to their conference coordinator's attention.