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Interference call


Guest david

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Guest david

Bases are loaded with 1 out. Ball is hit to SS. SS fields the ball and throws to 2Bman at the bag. 2Bman catches the ball and attempts to throw the ball to first base for a double play. Runner at 1st doesn't slide, gives up, or go around but runs into the second baseman as he makes his throw to first. While all this is happening both runners from second and third cross home plate. The force out at second was called and interference was called making the batter out at first base, but they allowed one run to score. What is the call at second? & Do any of the runs count?

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David, under high school rules your play was indeed a violation of the force play slide rule. Since the batter-runner was declared out for the third out no runs would score (he never legally attained

Yes -- sorry I missed that the play started with one out.  I (mis-)read it as the inning would continue with the runners returned.

Given what's being talked about, I'd like to provide a play that happened just today in a JV game, and our decision, so that you guys can light me up over how we %$#$@-ed it up, and get the whole budd

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1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

I think only FED protects retired runners from unintentional interference with a throw.

Yes, my bad. I'm a FED-first rules thinker. 

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12 hours ago, maven said:

I think Rich is asking about the OP.

correct. I think we have FPSR in all codes. Including OBR given the quote I gave. 

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Mr. Richvee, that bit of text you quoted is also in my copy of the 2018 MiLBUM found in section 6.6, p. 84. The section is titled Willful and Deliberate Interference—the same place I have been quoting from all along. It is based on a rule change made in 2016 OBR—following is the language in the rule book concerning the change and then the MLB press release describing the change. Please note that nowhere is the term force play slide rule used.

The Official Playing Rules Committee made the following changes that will be in effect for the 2016 season:

• Added new Rule 6.01(j) regarding a runner sliding to bases on double-play attempts. Cross-references to this rule added to appropriate rules as necessary.

 

MLB and the MLBPA jointly announced two significant rule changes for 2016. The World Umpire Association has also given consent. Those rule changes involve takeout slides to break up double plays and visits to the mound. The changes are contained in rule 6.01, new section 6.01(j) and 5.04(b)(4).

Takeout Slides

When it comes to breaking up double plays at second base, the runner is still allowed to make contact with the pivot man, but he can do so legally only if the following four conditions are satisfied:

1.      He begins his slide (i.e., makes contact with the ground) before reaching the base;

2.      He is able and attempts to reach the base with his hand or foot;

3.      He is able and attempts to remain on the base (except home plate) after completion of the slide; and

4.      He slides within reach of the base without changing his pathway for the purpose of initiating contact with a fielder.

As well, the runner may not engage "in a 'roll block,' or intentionally initiates (or attempts to initiate) contact with the fielder by elevating and kicking his leg above the fielder's knee or throwing his arm or his upper body."

If the runner is deemed to have violated any of these conditions, then he and the batter will be called out for interference. Potential violations will be reviewable using instant replay, as will, for the first time, "neighborhood play" calls.

As for the new slide rules, it's partly a response to a pair of high-profile injuries suffered in 2015.

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On 3/26/2021 at 6:51 PM, Senor Azul said:

Mr. beerguy55, FED rule 2-32-1 tells us that “a runner may slide or run in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder.” In the OP the runner complied with that rule and yet you still want to penalize him.

 

On 3/26/2021 at 6:51 PM, Senor Azul said:

Obviously, nothing I say will persuade you otherwise and vice versa. We are at an impasse.

I think I understand why we see the intent, or lack thereof, differently.

The OP has a typo, or bad grammar,  in at least a couple places - I am making a grammatical assumption about the OP - "Runner at 1st doesn't slide, gives up, or go around but runs into the second baseman as he makes his throw to first" should not have the "s" in gives...I am understanding it to mean "Runner at 1st doesn't slide, doesn't give up, doesn't go around, but runs into the second baseman as he makes his throw to first"...

Perhaps you are understanding it as "Runner at 1st doesn't slide, but gives up or goes around, but runs into the second baseman as he makes his throw to first"??...meaning the typo is on GO, not GIVES.

Whichever way we correct the grammar makes two very different events.   I think the first is more likely...the "or" between gives up and goes around, in the second option, only works in a hypothetical...in describing the event as he saw it he would say "gives up AND goes around"....whereas, the 'or' fits in "doesn't slide, give up, (n)or go around" in describing what he saw.

The "but runs into" fits in both scenarios, though "and runs into" would have been better for the first.  "And" works in both scenarios, but "but" is better in the second.

Whichever assumption is correct, I can now see this to be corrected in two different ways to potentially reach two different interpretations.

A - Runner at 1st doesn't slide, give up, or go around, and runs into the second baseman as he makes his throw to first.

B - Runner at 1st doesn't slide, gives up and goes around, but runs into the second baseman as he makes his throw to first

 

 

 

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Mr. beerguy55, what you surmise here is a distinct possibility. Of course I saw that the description was not the best but I must admit that it never occurred to me to guess what was actually meant. I focused on the “gives up” part.

Your analysis does explain a lot. It makes sense and is probably the correct interpretation. Thank you.

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On 3/24/2021 at 8:00 AM, Guest david said:

Runner at 1st doesn't slide, gives up, or go around but runs into the second baseman as he makes his throw to first

...doesn't slide, give(s) up, OR go around...

On 3/26/2021 at 5:02 PM, Senor Azul said:

in fact, the runner was trying to avoid by trying to go around.

I'm not sure how you get to "trying to avoid" from  "...doesn't (1) slide, (2) give(s) up, OR (3) go around but runs into the second baseman...". Now it is worded funny but if he doesn't do any of the required things to do?

 

On 3/26/2021 at 5:26 PM, beerguy55 said:

for me, goes beyond standard baserunning, and sounds like obvious intent to me

I have to agree with @beerguy55 on this.

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On 3/27/2021 at 10:47 PM, BT_Blue said:

It could be worse @HokieUmp. I ACTUALLY had a "the hands are part of the bat" argument today... IN A VARSITY GAME! SomethuSomething i NEVER thought i would have at that level! 

That .... is horrifying.

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On 3/24/2021 at 8:13 AM, noumpere said:

So my answer stands:  Force Play Slide Rule violation; runners return to the base occupied at the Time of Pitch.

Except the out at 1st was the 3rd out, so no runs score and the half-inning is over.

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