Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Since I can't umpire right now due to weather I am just going over situations from my first year of umpiring in 2020.  

Situation:  13U..........R2, 2 outs.  B4 hits a gapper to right center field.  R2 (who is the size of a grown man) is chugging around 3rd and there is going to be a play at the plate.  I get into my position and the catcher gets into his.  The throw is on line but its obvious it is going to be a little late but still close.  R2 slides feet first in a direct line to the plate however his lead cleat got caught up (Playing on artificial turf, infield and outfield) causing him to pop up (unintentionally).  One of his feet ended up getting the catcher on the lower shin guard and as he was sliding/falling whatever you want to call it his hand contacted the catchers back.  (This comes into play because the offensive manager argued that the runner kicked his catcher in the back)

I called the runner safe and the inning over. (Fall ball a run limit per half inning and it was reached) Immediately the pitcher (Who is about 4'11" 105 pounds) starts towards the runner that just scored and says something like "What the F*CK is your problem sliding into my catcher!?"  I quickly stepped in front of the pitcher and sent him back to the mound.  The runner acted maturely and went back to the dugout and the situation did not get out of control and nothing further happened.  The pitcher and the catcher are brothers and the pitcher (who thought the runner slid maliciously, and full speed to most people it probably did look that way) was sticking up for his catcher but more importantly his brother.  I DID NOT eject the pitcher even though it was an eject-able offense.  My question finally is....is profanity an automatic ejection for you all or is there ever a time to use discretion ?  This was not a FED game which the rules for profanity call for an automatic ejection.  This is OBR with no league rule stating a player or coach MUST be ejected only that they can be.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 37
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I got to add my all time example... HS player strikes out on a smoking fast ball right down the middle....takes his bat and slams it on the plate 3 times very loudly saying F@&K..F#$%..F*&amp

I will add this war story (which I'm certain I have posted before):  Normally, for the levels I work (shaving-aged players) I do not eject a player simply for swearing (as opposed to calling me a swea

Not to hijack the thread...but I'm sick of all these "Canadians are so nice" posts all over the internet.  I mean, Blue Jays fans are complete buttheads (see the "beer throwing at umpires as they walk

Posted Images

I dont have a ruling here. Only a story.

Watching my son's HS team play their cross-town rival in the sectionals, a kid was ejected for calling another player on the other team a dickhead (or something else vulger). Immediate ejection.

But the context was these kids were friends, played on the same legion team for two or more years, hung out a lot and knew how to push each other's buttons.

In fact, the ejectee was caught stealing a base and the other kid was the one tagging him out. The tagger said something smartass, the ejectee called him a dickhead as both were going to their dugouts, and boom, the ejectee was gone but not the instigator.

So, in my mind, the situation didnt call for an ejection - knowing the context or not. Yeah, i know, the ump probably didnt know all of the context. He most suredlly knew the teams and the familiarity between them. But he also heard their interaction and saw them separate going to their dugouts.

So he could have just verbalized a 'cut it out' and the situation would have been handled. IMHO.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930AZ using Tapatalk

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Community and league standards apply.  The "right" ruling will vary between urban and rural, coastal and midwestern, northern and southern, ...

 

You'll get better advice asking those in your area and others in that league.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Profanity in the heat of battle on a game-ending play is going to be a gray area. I agree with noumpere, and will add that there are way too many variables (heat of the game, volume of the profanity, etc. etc.) for there to be a definitive answer.

The pop-up slide is probably an illegal slide, regardless of intent, for FED (that would be INT, and the run would be negated). As this was an OBR game, the HP collision rule would apply, and the contact is probably legal.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny story I heard in Poland.

Right before the game, the umpires are checking on the field, when an assistant coach says, "Let' get this G*****D******ed game started!"

The umpire felt that their authority didn't quite apply yet, but he wanted to make a point.  So he glibly responded, "Coach, don't you dare blaspheme on my field!"

Gotta love that!

Mike

Las Vegas

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

U13, the f word, out loud, addressed to an opponent? Under his breath or to himself, ok, but loud enough to be heard by the PU and presumably the runner? This is not situational, IMO. I don't like automatics, but this is over the line. Kid, learn a lesson the hard way and take a seat on the bench.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, noumpere said:

Community and league standards apply.  The "right" ruling will vary between urban and rural, coastal and midwestern, northern and southern, ...

 

You'll get better advice asking those in your area and others in that league.

Haha I wasn’t seeking advice I was simply just asking others if profanity was an automatic for them

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, maven said:

You came to the wrong place to avoid advice.

Or war stories.

This may also be the wrong avocation if you don't want advice 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/16/2021 at 5:03 AM, Shawn0331 said:

This is OBR with no league rule stating a player or coach MUST be ejected only that they can be.

 

Thanks!

Like others have said, context matters and as you develop, you'll gain more confidence into reading those situations and making your decision.

That said, until then, if you NEED something along the lines of hard-and-fast truths

1) if it's a player or assistant coach

2) if it's loud enough for the fans to hear it

it's a good "automatic" threshold to start with. Again, not 100%, but if you need SOMETHING to start with as you develop your feel for situations.

If it's a HC, I might go with an immediate and loud warning. If it's personal, then we're back to automatic.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/17/2021 at 2:43 AM, Shawn0331 said:

Haha I wasn’t seeking advice I was simply just asking others if profanity was an automatic for them

 

On 1/16/2021 at 8:03 AM, Shawn0331 said:

My question finally is....is profanity an automatic ejection for you all or is there ever a time to use discretion ?  

The second half of your question inquires about a time for discretion. The use of discretion involves weighing options and making decisions. If you weren't looking for advice how would you characterize the inquiry?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

In high school and below, in my book, profanity that is loud enough for others to hear, and especially if it is directed at an opponent or umpire. is automatic.  Same situation in men's league, unless the league has a zero tolerance policy, read the situation and earn your pay (although if directed at the umpire himself (usually preceded by a "You" but that could be implied) you are on very thin ice).  Only one I wouldn't address is if it happens in a disagreement between player and coach and the team self polices it immediately. 

Under their breath, if not clearly directed at themselves, might just mention "watch the language" or something similar.  If young kids, may mention to coach what I told his kid if he asks.  Most will back you up as at 10 they don't really want them dropping F bombs.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure I shared this story before, but it's always good for a laugh.

Years ago, I used to work the local Catholic League HS, where we were taught this: when a kid cursed, we'd say to him, quietly, "Son, I don't mind that kind of language, but my partner's a priest, and it really upsets him."

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I will add this war story (which I'm certain I have posted before):  Normally, for the levels I work (shaving-aged players) I do not eject a player simply for swearing (as opposed to calling me a swear word).  With that said:  I was once working a high school game.  A groundball was hit up the first base line, fielded by F1.  F1 made a swipe tag attempt at the B/R and my partner (the base umpire) called safe/no tag.  After the play, my partner came to me for help and I quickly told him that I didn't have anything different.  

Now...to set the scene...as we were talking, parents/fans of the defensive team were yelling, screaming, etc. (the usual) at us.  When we ended our conference and I began to head back to the plate, the catcher screamed, "there's no God Damn way!"  Immediately, a hush came over the crowd; I mean everyone stopped yelling (please note: I umpire in the Bible Belt).  The silence was broken when a mom seated right behind the backstop said, "Oh, Johnny you can't do that."  I could feel every eye in the stands and dugouts staring at me.  So, I ejected the player.  The head coach didn't even argue...he just told his catcher to go sit at the end of the dugout.

Normally, would I eject for that?  Absolutely not.  However, in that particular context, I was completely certain that if I didn't eject him I would lose control of the game.  I mean everyone (even the kid's own mother and coach) expected me to eject him.  To not do so would have subjected myself to losing the respect of all the game participants (I don't care about the fans).  

Sometimes, you just have to have a feel for the situation.

 

 

  • Like 5
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The way I've been coached is the older they are, the more language you tolerate.  I have been speaking with an NCAA umpire because I would like to eventually get there, and they allow F-bombs from coaches and players alike.  On the other hand, the one guy I've ever ejected was for profanity.  12U.  The coach disagreed with my "out" call on a stolen base attempt and started yelling at me, claiming I was letting the running team's dugout influence my call.  When I told him, "Coach, I'm half deaf.  I can't hear them anyway," he yelled, "OH BULLSH*#!"  That was an automatic heave-ho because not only was he using profanity at a 12 year-old game, he was calling me a liar.  The local umpires said that was a perfect reason to eject IN THAT AGE BRACKET, but the NCAA guy I mentioned said he never would have done it in college.

All this to say, it depends on the age group.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/16/2021 at 3:04 PM, LRZ said:

U13, the f word, out loud, addressed to an opponent? Under his breath or to himself, ok, but loud enough to be heard by the PU and presumably the runner? This is not situational, IMO. I don't like automatics, but this is over the line. Kid, learn a lesson the hard way and take a seat on the bench.

Had a Varsity game a couple of years back, F1 throwing BB's.  Opposing F1 came to bat in bottom of 3rd.  First pitch was the old "right down the middle", as B1 watches it go by.  "He drops his head (obviously upset with himself) and drops an audible (but not going beyond earshot of the 3 of us in the vicinity of the plate) F bomb.....steps 1 foot out of the box, looks at the catcher and says "Dave, any chance I can get you to call the same pitch?"

A good chuckle was had by all 3 of us.

Context.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

 

The second half of your question inquires about a time for discretion. The use of discretion involves weighing options and making decisions. If you weren't looking for advice how would you characterize the inquiry?

Sorry I’m not trying to argue with you or argue semantics. I don’t need advice on my situation I posted because I wouldn’t handle that one any differently. I guess I’m just asking a question to stir up some conversation on how other umpires handle similar situations that’s all. Cheers ! 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Shawn, do you have automatics? If not, where do you draw the line on ejectable conduct? Lastly, since you admit the pitcher's conduct was an "ejectable offense," why didn't you eject him? What factors led to your decision not to eject?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I got to add my all time example...

HS player strikes out on a smoking fast ball right down the middle....takes his bat and slams it on the plate 3 times very loudly saying F@&K..F#$%..F*&^...( everyone in the complex heard him)

I look over to Coach and told him he needed a replacement for # 18....he had been ejected for profanity....

The Player Dad says: whats going on?

The Player says: I just got FING ejected! 

The Dad say: what the F&^% for?

The Player says: for something I FING said!

The Dad says : what did you FING say?...........

 

Coach just looks at me and shrugs his shoulders....

 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Stan W. said:

I got to add my all time example...

HS player strikes out on a smoking fast ball right down the middle....takes his bat and slams it on the plate 3 times very loudly saying F@&K..F#$%..F*&^...( everyone in the complex heard him)

I look over to Coach and told him he needed a replacement for # 18....he had been ejected for profanity....

The Player Dad says: whats going on?

The Player says: I just got FING ejected! 

The Dad say: what the F&^% for?

The Player says: for something I FING said!

The Dad says : what did you FING say?...........

 

Coach just looks at me and shrugs his shoulders....

 

They probably were from NYC. Have you ever heard of the NY alphabet:)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/16/2021 at 1:04 PM, LRZ said:

U13, the f word, out loud, addressed to an opponent? Under his breath or to himself, ok, but loud enough to be heard by the PU and presumably the runner? This is not situational, IMO. I don't like automatics, but this is over the line. Kid, learn a lesson the hard way and take a seat on the bench.

"Watch your mouth" is just as effective.  I've seen a few umps in my life that make any f-bomb, in any context, an automatic ejection - even in men's league...they are power trippers IMO.  (league/tourney mandates noted and not included here)  The majority of umps in this situation, in my experience, give out "watch your mouth" or some similar warning and achieve the same objective...lesson learned and behavior stops.

We have to stop pretending that saying "F*#K" is a national travesty...or that somehow disguising it as "fudge" or "feck" changes everything.   Profanity simply becomes an excuse.   There are some words that can be viewed with scorn and derision within a bubble, without context...the f-word is not one of them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As I'm sure you are aware, beerguy55, being a thoughtful person (I say this seriously, not sarcastically), this is a matter of opinion as well as local custom. Most leagues here (in all the sports I work) have sportsmanship codes that emphasize socially accepted behavior. I will repeat myself: around here, "f***" from a 12-13/ y/o, out loud and addressed to an opponent is over the accepted and acceptable line. How we address it--a caution, as you suggest, or an ejection--is likewise a matter of opinion and local custom. HS, ok, I can see that; below HS, not so much. I'd be dinged for not ejecting.

Or maybe it's just the difference between Canada and the USA! It's a gross generalization, I admit, but Americans are probably a whole lot more moralistic than you Canadians.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.






×
×
  • Create New...