Acceptable for PU

[Replacematt]

27 minutes ago, ATXBlue said:

Agreed on that for sure, but I think where you lost me earlier in the thread was no LS on the bases.

Sounds like you are an assigner so at the end of the day you can have whatever standards you want, but are coaches out there that are wearing a beanie, hoodie, and baseball pants really thinking "Oh this base guy is wearing long sleeves/ that plate umpire is wearing a pullover, what a slob." ? I just don't know about that.

Yes, there are. And it's not necessarily a conscious thought--it's that this guy looks different. They may not put their fingers on it, but something isn't the same as others they've seen, and it colors their perception.

[Rock Bottom]

I coached for 15 years and I NEVER once thought to look to see if the umps had matching shirts sleeves. No long sleeves on the bases makes no sense at all.  People have differences in what's comfortable.  Players are certainly not wearing the same socks even, let alone sleeve lengths.  As noted, and assignor can have whatever standard they want, but there are a LOT of games out there (in normal years), with assignors competing for the same umps.  I think we should dress, and more importantly act, professionally, but wearing long sleeves on bases shouldn't be an issue for anyone.  

[Thunderheads]

Especially in High School ....

Just look the part, and be comfortable!  HS baseball in Michigan starts in late March for God's sake ... I've actually worn my "ThermaBase" heavy zip coat on the plate before.  Cloudy, 40-ish deg, w/ 12-15mph winds ...I'm going to be warm, sorry.  I'm clean, neat, pressed, my uniform is in-line with the requirements ... it's fine.  Was it a bit bulky, yes, but I was comfy!  

Same goes for pullovers.  If that's what you have, rock it.  My personal opinion on the pullover on the plate is if you DO wear it, tuck it!  It just looks better  

[wvumpire1984]

I understand what you are saying about coaches.  But the long sleeve shirt was designed to have an in between on the plate from short sleeve shirt or pullover.  My guys dont wear them on the bases.

[Thunderheads]

1 hour ago, wvumpire1984 said:

I understand what you are saying about coaches.  But the long sleeve shirt was designed to have an in between on the plate from short sleeve shirt or pullover.  My guys dont wear them on the bases.

While I understand all of this ......... if PU and BU both had LS shirts on ...... I really don't see that as being a big deal.  But that's just me  

[wvumpire1984]

ok let me as you this then.  What if the base guy is wearing a short sleeve shirt, but the plate guy wears a pullover.  How horrible does that look as a crew.  the defense rest.

[LRZ]

"Horrible" is in the eyes of the beholder.

Even in warm weather, I will usually wear a long sleeve shirt on the bases. I've had a lot of skin cancer issues the past 5-6 years, and I'm not going to expose myself to the sun any more than I have to, just because my partner has a contrary fashion sense.

[Rock Bottom]

2 hours ago, wvumpire1984 said:

ok let me as you this then.  What if the base guy is wearing a short sleeve shirt, but the plate guy wears a pullover.  How horrible does that look as a crew.  the defense rest.

It doesn't look terrible at all. Maybe one guy is always hot and the other cold - why would they need to wear the same outfit? So, if I'm doing the bases and it's 50*, and the plate guy goes short sleeves because he's always hot behind the plate, I have to freeze my butt off in short sleeves on the bases?

Show me a team or coaching staff that all wears the same uniform.  Hell, the MLB lets coaches wear hoodies and I think THAT looks BRUTAL.  One ump wearing short sleeves and one a pullover is nothing compared to that look.  And look at the pant length differences, stirrup vs. socks, sock colors, shoe colors, etc.  No one but some umps (and assignors) care at all.  The prosecution rests and requests summary judgement.  Granted.

[wolfe_man]

I find it amazing that people worry this much about matching. Is there a book somewhere for fashion faux-pas for amateur umpires?   "Oh, that jacket is just so totally last year Bob.  I can't work with you anymore!"

It is ridiculously expensive to start as a baseball umpire, then let's add another couple hundred dollars in coats, jackets, long-sleeve shirts, etc. so he can be sure to match up with his partner all of the time - even though he may only wear it once or twice a year!

This is why we all need to go to black as our main color, instead of navy.  You have to have navy for HS, but then if you do Travel, Legion, Babe Ruth, etc. also, then your navy OHSAA jacket can't be used - so you have to purchase a black (and possibly navy) non-logo one too.  Navy just makes you have to purchase a second set of everything.

To me it is simple.  Jersey color needs to match... period.  

I'd prefer the jersey striping matches too, but not required.  I've worked with so many guys that only have the 'softball' powder polo and I have the 'baseball' version but we got by as hard to tell from the stands if my stripes are black or navy.  I've since picked up another powder shirt to match exactly in the future.  I've also worked with guys who had the same color, but they had vertical stripes versus my shoulder stripes and no one noticed but me I think.  Unless I'm standing right beside him (which I'm not after the plate meeting), then all most in the stands see is a black shirt.

I'm always hot and even in 50-degree temps, I'm probably rocking the jacket with zip-off sleeves.  I'm in OH, and have recently switched to a LS shirt on the plate because it's less to tuck in than the bulky jacket excess around the waist.   It looks better and I can layer under if needed.

For the bases though, that guy needs to wear what makes him comfortable.  He shouldn't have to freeze because I'm always hot.  Many times I am working with older men who have thinner blood than myself, so why should they have to be uncomfortable because I'm not going to wear a jacket? 

If we worry this much about matching and make such a big deal about needing to match, that they're out there shaking due to being cold, how long do you think it will be before their mind wanders and focuses more on being cold and ready to go home than the play at first base?  It's human nature. 

My association told us to wear what makes us comfortable, try to match as much as possible but wear what keeps you warm.  And they were specifically talking about not having an OHSAA logo'd jacket to wear. 

The focus ought to be on comfort and matching required jersey colors & apparel from our state.  This is amateur baseball... no one is going to die if my partner wears a jacket and I don't.  I've seen the guys in MLB do it this way for what it's worth. 

I've always heard about the unwritten rules of baseball - but I think we umpires have almost as many on our own.

 

[wvumpire1984]

no no im talking about the plate guy wanting to wear long sleeves and the base guy wearing short sleeves.  Im sorry but that looks bad. I once had a crew chief who wanted to wear his plate coat in 50 degree weather.  Me and the other base guy were like, OMG, its too warm for that.  But we wore our pullovers on the bases.  For continuity.  In my opinion, its no different that wearing 2 different color shirts on the field.

 

and yes the versions of the shirt must match.  Maybe its my OCD, but it looks bad.  Will the coaches know?  no they probably wont.  But I will know, and if im being watched and i dont know it, then im screwed in that regard.

[wolfe_man]

2 hours ago, wvumpire1984 said:

no no im talking about the plate guy wanting to wear long sleeves and the base guy wearing short sleeves.  Im sorry but that looks bad. I once had a crew chief who wanted to wear his plate coat in 50 degree weather.  Me and the other base guy were like, OMG, its too warm for that.  But we wore our pullovers on the bases.  For continuity.  In my opinion, its no different that wearing 2 different color shirts on the field.

 

and yes the versions of the shirt must match.  Maybe its my OCD, but it looks bad.  Will the coaches know?  no they probably wont.  But I will know, and if im being watched and i dont know it, then im screwed in that regard.

I understand where you're coming from, but respectfully disagree.   Again, I'm hot-blooded and an older gentlemen working with me may need his jacket whereas I do not.  Why should I be hot just so he can be comfortable? So I look good?  Sorry, I can't get behind this reasoning.

But then again, I hate the pivot between 1st and 2nd when I can pick up the touch/no-touch/interference/obstruction with a glance over my shoulder - but the regs mandate I pivot!  I guess I'm a rebel. I know it's an appearance thing - but I'm told the higher levels (2 man, not MLB of course) do not pivot either, so why must we do it? Because it looks like we're paying more attention.  Optics are important I get it.

But since I am OCD too, I can relate to you wanting things to match.

I will add that I'd be much more willing to wear the jacket on the bases if it breathed better.  But the Smitty required OHSAA jackets are basically sauna suits, which is fine when it's cold but at 50-and up you sweat like a pig and the material sticks to you. 

[Thunderheads]

2 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

 

But then again, I hate the pivot between 1st and 2nd when I can pick up the touch/no-touch/interference/obstruction with a glance over my shoulder - but the regs mandate I pivot!  I guess I'm a rebel. I know it's an appearance thing - but I'm told the higher levels (2 man, not MLB of course) do not pivot either, so why must we do it? Because it looks like we're paying more attention.  Optics are important I get it.

 

I'm all about the NO pivot.  ...I'll be 55 in one month .... the 'glance' is MUCH more fluid, and effective for ME!  

[BT_Blue]

1 hour ago, Thunderheads said:

I'm all about the NO pivot.  ...I'll be 55 in one month .... the 'glance' is MUCH more fluid, and effective for ME!  

I'm 41... and I've been about the Triple A pivot for 20 years! Lol

[BT_Blue]

6 hours ago, wvumpire1984 said:

I once had a crew chief who wanted to wear his plate coat in 50 degree weather.  Me and the other base guy were like, OMG, its too warm for that.  But we wore our pullovers on the bases.

I had a partner from Vegas come work with me here in Oregon. It was 50 some odd degrees. All the players were in short sleeves and I was too on my plate (he was bundled up). His plate... plate coat (and it looked bad ass). So I went with zip off sleeves. If I didn't have that, I'm wearing short sleeves. To hell with the rest of it.

[Biscuit]

At the last 3 people to post, find a seat if you're standing. And I say that only mostly in jest. Wendelstedt is not teaching the pivot this year.

Yes, you read that right, no more pivots. Hunter and Jansen have relayed that they think MiLB will be getting rid of the pivot, potentially as early as this season.

[tpatience]

58 minutes ago, Biscuit said:

At the last 3 people to post, find a seat if you're standing. And I say that only mostly in jest. Wendelstedt is not teaching the pivot this year.

Yes, you read that right, no more pivots. Hunter and Jansen have relayed that they think MiLB will be getting rid of the pivot, potentially as early as this season.

My buddy told me that. Whoop whoop! 

[Thatsnotyou]

On 1/18/2021 at 7:22 PM, Rock Bottom said:

The problem I have with the pullover jacket is that unless it's really cold there is too much condensation and it doesn't breathe well at all.  I bought it with the elastic bottom before I knew better, but if the tuck-in version ventilates as poorly as the elastic bottom one I'm glad I didn't go tuck-in, because my pants would be soaked with sweat.  At least with the elastic I can shake it out discreetly between innings.

Good point. This is the line I try to use. If I’m to the point I’m sweating, it feels like I’m wearing a wet garbage bag. Any chance I sweat, I go to a long sleeve, under armour cold gear underneath. If it’s 40+ with minimal wind, I can do that. Start to get below that and/or bad wind, I think about jacket, as I won’t be sweating. 
 

The UA cold gear is a lifesaver. 

[BT_Blue]

5 hours ago, Biscuit said:

At the last 3 people to post, find a seat if you're standing. And I say that only mostly in jest. Wendelstedt is not teaching the pivot this year.

Yes, you read that right, no more pivots. Hunter and Jansen have relayed that they think MiLB will be getting rid of the pivot, potentially as early as this season.

The story of how Harry came up with the pivot as told by Brent Rice is pretty hilarious.

[wolfe_man]

6 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

The story of how Harry came up with the pivot as told by Brent Rice is pretty hilarious.

Was it while watching barrel-racing?  Because I always feel like the horse rounding the barrel.  It not only looks ridiculous, but it feels like it too!

@Thunderheads we may need a new thread started for the Pivot and a couple of these moved over.  I know you like to keep a clean ship.

[Thunderheads]

43 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

Was it while watching barrel-racing?  Because I always feel like the horse rounding the barrel.  It not only looks ridiculous, but it feels like it too!

@Thunderheads we may need a new thread started for the Pivot and a couple of these moved over.  I know you like to keep a clean ship.

MY MAN!!!  Always thinking!   YOU, my friend need to be a moderator! @Umpire in Chief     Who started the pivot conversation?   That person can start the post/thread, and I'll move some stuff over once it's done.  Thanks @wolfe_man !!

[ArchAngel72]

So I typically when not working by myself ( at that point all I care is that I look decent )  I have started some games with my pull over on and I got one that is one size larger than I normally wear on the field for plate work.  Some games I finish with it on sometimes I don't

but I have worked some games down around 32 degrees and spitting snow too. so.. yeah I'm gonna be warm.

And at my level of LL 12u  all they care is that they get someone who is looking the part and doing a decent job.

I do work with a guy alot 2 man that he always and I mean ALWAYS wears a long sleeve undershirt when he's PU.  Sometimes I try to coordinate that but dang when its 80 plus out nope. Can't do it. 

 

This is the one I use.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00781RAAW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

But anyway unless your boss is telling you, you need to wear this XYZ  and look this way XYZ, then meh who cares as long as you look the part.

 

Now I am not talking about you and your partner or partners wearing different colored jerseys ie powder blue and navy blue or black Thats completely a different topic whomever would try that needs an examination. 

[Aging_Arbiter]

21 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

I'm all about the NO pivot.  ...I'll be 55 in one month .... the 'glance' is MUCH more fluid, and effective for ME!  

Having both knees replaced tends to cause you to frown on the pivot................he says as glancing over his shoulder

[boyinr]

2 hours ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

Having both knees replaced tends to cause you to frown on the pivot................he says as glancing over his shoulder

June and October of 2020.  The scars tell the story.  

[BT_Blue]

8 hours ago, boyinr said:

June and October of 2020.  The scars tell the story.  

I stopped doing the pivot long before my late 2018 meniscus repair. So much so, that I got called "a f-ing duck out of water" by a MLB Hall of Fame umpire because my pivot was so bad.

[BlueRanger]

On 1/18/2021 at 2:49 PM, wvumpire1984 said:

I havent worn a pullover on the plate in over 10 years.  Now i will wear a shell on the plate, which is short sleeve pullover, but  will not wear a pullover.  To me it just doesnt look as good.  I would rather wear my plate coat or a long sleeve shirt.  If its raining, im going to get wet regardless.  Oh well.  

 

My other pet peeve, and when I am working a game with a younger umpire in my HS association, I wont let them do this.  Is wear a long sleeve shirt on the bases.  Long sleeve umpire shirts are for the plate.  How many MiLB games, or MLB games, or College games have you seen Base guys wear the long sleeve shirt. Non, i cant remember one instance.  

 

 

On 1/19/2021 at 3:51 PM, wvumpire1984 said:

this is why long sleeve shirts are made. No reason for a short sleeve shirt over a long sleeve.  When youre trying to move up, this doesnt look good.  I have uniform standards for my guys. You follow them or you dont work.

 I don't even know where to start with this.

This is the epitome of everything wrong with HS Associations. You have people like this dude who think they're God's gift to baseball with the "I haven't worn a pullover in 10 years and you're a loser if you do" attitude. Then these tools work with new guys and run them out of town with the overbearing "my way or beat it" crap to make sure nobody touches their precious varsity schedules. So, descend from your throne oh wise one and maybe you'll see that we need new umpires focused on the game in inclement weather, not figuring out how they're going to get their money back because you're the fifth guy in a row they've worked with who's more worried about gates being shut and doing a TSA inspection for jewelry, than making an effort to work with them on areas of weakness and protect them from the jackals.