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Pitcher pick off move to 2nd


BigVic69

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24 minutes ago, BigVic69 said:

Assume that the pitcher makes a legal move to second base

In that act, being legal... he can feint, right? So if he can feint, he can throw – regardless of who it’s towards or where they are. Or, since he can legally feint, he can begin chasing the R2 down, if he wishes. This is all provided that there is a “legal move to 2B”, as you mentioned.

So... 

  1. Yes
  2. Yes
  3. Yes

And, as @maven is apt to say, “This is legal in all codes”.

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Whew! That is how I called it this weekend.

I figured that a feint meant as you described..

I sold it, they bought it and all was good. I just wanted to double check that in was not making something up. As funny as it sounds...this has never occurred to me, such that the runner made a break for 3rd. 

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2 hours ago, MadMax said:

In that act, being legal... he can feint, right? So if he can feint, he can throw – regardless of who it’s towards or where they are. Or, since he can legally feint, he can begin chasing the R2 down, if he wishes. This is all provided that there is a “legal move to 2B”, as you mentioned.

So... 

  1. Yes
  2. Yes
  3. Yes

And, as @maven is apt to say, “This is legal in all codes”.

All are legal but I don’t think your rationale is correct. Once the pitcher makes a legal move to 2B which only involves a step and pivot foot dissengage he has become an infielder. He then is not constrained by any pitching rules. 

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3 hours ago, BigVic69 said:

PG (Perfect Game) group (ie USSSA with minor changes) rule set.

Assume that the pitcher makes a legal move to second base and R2 breaks for 3rd.

If the pitcher does not throw to 2nd, can he throw to:

1) 3rd base

2) the SS, in between 2nd/3rd base

3) or run down R2

- Big Vic

If F1, in one motion, "steps to second and throws to third" -- that's a balk.

 

If he feints toward second,  and THEN (i.e., a separate move) throw to third, that's legal

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4 hours ago, noumpere said:

If F1, in one motion, "steps to second and throws to third" -- that's a balk.

 

If he feints toward second,  and THEN (i.e., a separate move) throw to third, that's legal

Noumpere, does your first statement assume that the pitcher's foot does not disengage the rubber?

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8 hours ago, BigVic69 said:

Noumpere, does your first statement assume that the pitcher's foot does not disengage the rubber?

I assume he has not disengaged (that is, stepped back) before starting the move.

 

If it's RH pitcher, it's a twist and step to second (more toward second than to third), just like any legal "inside move" to second,  and a cross-body throw to third.

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22 hours ago, MadMax said:

In that act, being legal... he can feint, right? So if he can feint, he can throw – regardless of who it’s towards or where they are. Or, since he can legally feint, he can begin chasing the R2 down, if he wishes. This is all provided that there is a “legal move to 2B”, as you mentioned.

So... 

  1. Yes
  2. Yes
  3. Yes

And, as @maven is apt to say, “This is legal in all codes”.

I thought you were going to say.... as @maven is apt to say, "Day game or night game"?

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9 hours ago, noumpere said:

If it's RH pitcher, it's a twist and step to second (more toward second than to third), just like any legal "inside move" to second,  and a cross-body throw to third.

That is what I wanted to clarify from your first statement:

"If" your statement happens and he leaves his foot on the rubber, then it is a balk if he throws anywhere but second base, correct?

However, if he makes the twisty motion (correctly) AND steps of the rubber with his pivot foot, then he can throw anywhere he pleases. 

Is this what you describing?

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6 minutes ago, maven said:

I don't remember him ever saying that.

I do remember him saying, "It's impossible to balk to second base."

You are probably correct. I will say, a career highlight was listening to Tim talk about balks (and hearing him say this) in person shortly after I moved to Portland!

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This brings up another question... RHP and R1 breaks early for 2B (probably with R3 laying in wait).   Pitcher does not disengage, but rather jump spins and throws ahead of R1  to the SS at 2B.    I'm sure this has probably been answered somewhere in the forums before because i can see most coaches going ape SH*# crazy saying that the RHP failed to disengage.     Some reassurance that this is a legal play on the runner attempting to advance and not a balk would be music to my ears.  

 

To make it even more disturbing to witness,  what if it was R2 who broke early to 3B  and the RHP (from the stretch)  lifts his leg while in contact and steps towards 3b  where he delivers  the baseball to the unoccupied base where the runner is advancing.    Talk about a mutiny....   in the same scenario  allow the RHP or LHP to jump spin in front of the rubber and watch the entire stadium erupt.  

 

Edited by Double Up
typo
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4 hours ago, Double Up said:

This brings up another question... RHP and R1 breaks early for 2B (probably with R3 laying in wait).   Pitcher does not disengage, but rather jump spins and throws ahead of R1  to the SS at 2B.    I'm sure this has probably been answered somewhere in the forums before because i can see most coaches going ape SH*# crazy saying that the RHP failed to disengage.     Some reassurance that this is a legal play on the runner attempting to advance and not a balk would be music to my ears.  

 

To make it even more disturbing to witness,  what if it was R2 who broke early to 3B  and the RHP (from the stretch)  lifts his leg while in contact and steps towards 3b  where he delivers  the baseball to the unoccupied base where the runner is advancing.    Talk about a mutiny....   in the same scenario  allow the RHP or LHP to jump spin in front of the rubber and watch the entire stadium erupt.  

 

All legal.  Everyone remembers the "It's a balk to throw to an unoccupied base ..." phrase but forgets the rest of the rule "... except for the purposes of making a play."

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