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Runner Lane Interference or Not?


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3 minutes ago, humanbackstop19 said:

Fielders (even LH 1B-man) taking a throw from in front of the mound are taught to take the throw with left foot on base.  It sacrifices a stretch, but opens up a target to the chest and mobility to move laterally into fair territory (can't go foul, cause the train's comin through) or knock the ball down in front of them if it's low.  Because the fielder could not do those things, it supports a poor quality in the throw and justifies a no-call.  

Fair enough...but then it begs the question that there are more disadvantages than advantages to that technique. 

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15 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Fair enough...but then it begs the question that there are more disadvantages than advantages to that technique. 

From a rules standpoint....Agree.  From a coaching fundamentals stance ("hit em in the chest!"), I'll let the coaches figure it out.  

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On 10/7/2020 at 1:17 PM, Richvee said:

 I know it doesn't matter in calling this play, but it seems to me the runner would have been  even more in the way of F3 fielding the throw if he were indeed compliant.  

RLI in FED, not in OBR. I don't think the runner caused F3 to not make the play. 

Curious as to your reason for calling it RLI in FED. Not saying I disagree, but it's important to know why...

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7 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

Let's do a quick sanity check as this play would pertain to NFHS also?

For some reason I have on my brain that "quality of throw doesn't matter" for FED with this rule?  Where am I getting that.  Of course, the rule doesn't spell that out, but ... for reference, here is 8.4.1 G:
Runner is out when: 
he runs outside the three-foot running lane (last half of the distance from home plate to first base), while the ball is being fielded or thrown to first base; or
  1. This infraction is ignored if it is to avoid a fielder who is attempting to field the batted ball or if the act does not interfere with a fielder or a throw.
  2. The batter runner is considered outside the running lane lines if either foot is outside either line.
DOES FED require a quality throw, or is it spelled out in (1.) ?  

It's spelled out in 1. "or a throw"

It's the same in NCAA. By the way, I think we should toss the phrase, "quality throw." It doesn't appear in ANY rulebook. Let's stick with the rule. It's RLI if:

OBR: The batter-runner, running outside the lane hinders the ability of the fielder to receive the throw

FED & NCAA: The batter-runner, running outside the lane hinders the ability of the fielder to receive the throw, or hinders the throw itself

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Quick story on this! 

My 1st yr HS and 1st game opening day in Pensicola, Fl. 1997.  I have the dish, JV game 6:00 start.  Varsity to follow 7:45 start under the lights.  Game finishes without a hitch and I'm feeling GREAT!  Now I'm looking forward to watching the V game.  I go into the locker room, yes they had facilities for us in Fl., and meet the Varsity OFFICIAL!  Yes, ONE!  He has no partner.  He asks if I can stay and of course I say yes.  He then asks, "What do you want"? Duh!  "Well, I'm already dressed";)  Okay, enough of the preamble.

Game is tight and going great until about the bottom of the 5th.  R1, 0 outs, 2-1 as I recall.  B2 bunts down 1B line.  Catcher comes out and I'm right on top of it watching BR hit the 45' line, catcher fields it 10' or so down the line when all of a sudden BR veers left into LB territory. (They were definitely taught to do this) The catcher sees this and pumps to throw but BR is in the way.  He then takes a step left to create a throwing lane, all the while in this 3-5 second time period I'm thinking, Oh GOD, if he throws this I gotta make this call.  

Well, he did, and on the release I'm pointing "That's INT, That's INT" as the throw goes 10' over F3's head.  Play is continuing as R1 is scoring, BR is going to 2nd, fans are screaming, all the while I'm yelling "TIME"!  Coach goes nuts of course, and being a rookie, I'm not trying to toss him so he gets a little rope.  So, play continues after we settle the coach down and replace R1.  Next batter comes up and I call a strike on the outside corner.  I hear, "Pitch outside called strike" by the announcer up in the booth behind the backstop. WTF

"TIME, one more comment like that and your services will no longer be required"!  Now I'm really hearing it from the HT fans.  

So, ask me if I would make the same call again!

 

 

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On 10/9/2020 at 10:23 AM, Tborze said:

Quick story on this! 

My 1st yr HS and 1st game opening day in Pensicola, Fl. 1997.  I have the dish, JV game 6:00 start.  Varsity to follow 7:45 start under the lights.  Game finishes without a hitch and I'm feeling GREAT!  Now I'm looking forward to watching the V game.  I go into the locker room, yes they had facilities for us in Fl., and meet the Varsity OFFICIAL!  Yes, ONE!  He has no partner.  He asks if I can stay and of course I say yes.  He then asks, "What do you want"? Duh!  "Well, I'm already dressed";)  Okay, enough of the preamble.

Game is tight and going great until about the bottom of the 5th.  R1, 0 outs, 2-1 as I recall.  B2 bunts down 1B line.  Catcher comes out and I'm right on top of it watching BR hit the 45' line, catcher fields it 10' or so down the line when all of a sudden BR veers left into LB territory. (They were definitely taught to do this) The catcher sees this and pumps to throw but BR is in the way.  He then takes a step left to create a throwing lane, all the while in this 3-5 second time period I'm thinking, Oh GOD, if he throws this I gotta make this call.  

Well, he did, and on the release I'm pointing "That's INT, That's INT" as the throw goes 10' over F3's head.  Play is continuing as R1 is scoring, BR is going to 2nd, fans are screaming, all the while I'm yelling "TIME"!  Coach goes nuts of course, and being a rookie, I'm not trying to toss him so he gets a little rope.  So, play continues after we settle the coach down and replace R1.  Next batter comes up and I call a strike on the outside corner.  I hear, "Pitch outside called strike" by the announcer up in the booth behind the backstop. WTF

"TIME, one more comment like that and your services will no longer be required"!  Now I'm really hearing it from the HT fans.  

So, ask me if I would make the same call again!

 

 

You made the call on the release? It worked out because he airmailed it, but you've got a huge problem if they just make the play.

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12 hours ago, grayhawk said:

You made the call on the release? It worked out because he airmailed it, but you've got a huge problem if they just make the play.

Why not bold "as the throw goes..." ?  How long does it take after release to reach 1st, a sec? But I can see how it reads.  

The point is, I made the call based on the release.  But, what did the BR actually INT with?  

 

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11 minutes ago, Tborze said:

Why not bold "as the throw goes..." ?  How long does it take after release to reach 1st, a sec? But I can see how it reads.  

The point is, I made the call based on the release.  But, what did the BR actually INT with?  

 

As you said, it's the way it reads. My point is to take in the entirety of the play and use all available information to make your call.

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On 10/8/2020 at 6:22 PM, grayhawk said:

Curious as to your reason for calling it RLI in FED. Not saying I disagree, but it's important to know why...

Well, I’m late answering and you answered it in your reply to Thunderheads. We can get RLI in FED if we judge running outside the lane contributed to the fielder’s poor throw. I think if BR is in the lane the fielder had a clearer path at a  throw to F3. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/6/2020 at 10:07 PM, johnnyg08 said:

It's convenient to argue the "quality throw" but let me ask this to the group...IF the batter/runner was compliant, would it have given F3 a chance to field the throw? 

 

Johnny08

Get the Betts play at first in here that was overturned in the Dodger braves 10/14 game with everyones favorite plate umpire as a play coming from third and the runner inside that you would have to rule on even though the player catches the ball on the play rather than if he had missed the ball.  Could an umpire be signaling an interference, if there definitely is one, even though/before the player does end up catching the ball and the interference can be ignored. Like a CI, batt on glove, and the player still hits a home run. Do you ignore the interference or call it, before the results of the play.

 

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