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Guest HankC

when is an out an out

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Guest HankC

timing play, runner on 2nd, 2 out.

hit to the gap, runner stretches to second,

tag is made, bu checks for the ball, runner crosses home, bu calls 'out' 

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I agree with what Mr. LRZ posted. It is what I was taught a long time ago. However, surprisingly little is written on this topic. I have been able to find only the following text taken from the 2017 Jaksa/Roder rules interpretation manual (chapter 10, p. 90):

When judging whether a run scores on a time play, the umpire is to watch for whether the runner touches the plate before or after the tag originates. The tag originates when it is applied by touching the runner or base. An umpire is not to judge a time play according to whether the runner touches the plate before or after the completion of the tag—which is after complete control is shown or proven. The umpire at the plate watches for whether the runner touches the plate before or after the origination of the tag. The umpire on the bases watches for the completion of the tag (complete control) and signals the third out. Only then does the umpire at the plate make his signal on the time play.

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It's similar (but not exact)  to "when can a runner leave the base on a caught fly"   -- as soon as the ball is touched, even though the final act of detrmining the catch doesn't happen until some time (often a very short time)later.

 

or "why do we signal foul and then catch on a fly near the line" -- because the ball is foul (or fair) as soon as it's touched but it's not a catch until later.

 

Here, the out happens when the tag is first applied -- even though it's not "confirmed" until later.

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17 hours ago, Guest HankC said:

timing play, runner on 2nd, 2 out.

hit to the gap, runner stretches to second,

tag is made, bu checks for the ball, runner crosses home, bu calls 'out' 

When did you run the red light...when you passed through the intersection or when the cop gave you the ticket?

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