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Interference

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Guest velthouse@hotmail.com

Slow pitch softball game.  Runners on first and third.  Batter hits a pop fly to third.  Third baseman drops the ball.  No runner moves and the batter stays in the batter's box.  Ball is then thrown to second and then to first.  Neither umpire says anything or calls time until after the ball is held by the first baseman forcing the batter out at first.  After the play is stopped the hitting team claims they heard someone yell in field fly.  It was not one of the umps or someone on the defense.  No one on the defense heard this call.  Umpire calls just the batter out.  Was this the correct call?

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1 hour ago, Guest velthouse@hotmail.com said:

Slow pitch softball game.  Runners on first and third.  Batter hits a pop fly to third.  Third baseman drops the ball.  No runner moves and the batter stays in the batter's box.  Ball is then thrown to second and then to first.  Neither umpire says anything or calls time until after the ball is held by the first baseman forcing the batter out at first.  After the play is stopped the hitting team claims they heard someone yell in field fly.  It was not one of the umps or someone on the defense.  No one on the defense heard this call.  Umpire calls just the batter out.  Was this the correct call?

If it was an IFF the batter is automatically out and R1 is not forced to advance, thus he can stay at 1B.  Right call.

 

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9 hours ago, Guest velthouse@hotmail.com said:

  Third baseman drops the ball.

Intentionally dropped, accidentally dropped, or let fall untouched?   At least in baseball, it makes a difference.

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Can't be IFF: 2B was unoccupied.

Random people (or voices in the head) shouting "infield fly" are irrelevant to the correct call.

Unless noumpere's followup turns up anything, this is a double play, 5-4-3.

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In keeping with the confusing title & OP, I'm going to have to say this is a...

Alex Trebek Football GIF by Jeopardy!

To the OP's intended point & reference to Interference, I believe he means that someone interfered by yelling "infield fly" as a means to cause confusion (and it worked).  Having had some experience around slow-pitch softball games as both a player and umpire, there are always some ornery guys waiting on the next game that are eager to help out the playing teams by offering advice and other opinions about how to field, hit, umpire, etc. I can totally see one of them having some fun by yelling 'infield fly' to distract the playing teams solely for his entertainment and/or to the joy of his peers.

I do agree with Maven that it can't be IFF as runners were on 1st and 3rd... not 1st and 2nd as the rule dictates (and less than 2 outs which it clearly was in the OP).     Even if someone did yell "infield fly", as long as it wasn't the defensive team or an umpire, then it's a double play.  We cannot help what those outside the field of play may do, so long as it wasn't someone on the field creating the problem, then we play on and the play stands.

If we start giving out mulligans (which is what I would assume the batting team wanted by claiming someone said IFF) every time someone says they heard something, then we'd never get anything accomplished in a game.   And if we allowed mulligans simply because someone heard something, then we'd have a lot of do-overs because we'd have an outbreak of hearing issues begin, which would require a whole bunch of new rules about who heard what when and so forth in return. 

So, sorry... in the words of the infamous Wonka:

Lose Willy Wonka GIF

 

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12 hours ago, Guest velthouse@hotmail.com said:

Slow pitch softball game.  Runners on first and third.  Batter hits a pop fly to third.  Third baseman drops the ball.  No runner moves and the batter stays in the batter's box.  Ball is then thrown to second and then to first.  Neither umpire says anything or calls time until after the ball is held by the first baseman forcing the batter out at first.  After the play is stopped the hitting team claims they heard someone yell in field fly.  It was not one of the umps or someone on the defense.  No one on the defense heard this call.  Umpire calls just the batter out.  Was this the correct call?

It depends.

First, about the infield fly...

The players are expected to know the rules...it can't be an infield fly if 2b isn't occupied...it doesn't matter who calls it...it's not an infield fly - the players are expected to know this and play accordingly, even if the umpire says it by mistake.   Especially adults, no matter how many beers they've popped - and frankly, if it's American beer that won't matter at all.

 

But, regarding the dropped ball - if F5 intentionally dropped the ball (and he has to touch it in flight, not just let it bounce) with at least first base occupied, less than two out, the batter is out - in any softball code I know about.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, wolfe_man said:

In keeping with the confusing title & OP, I'm going to have to say this is a...

Alex Trebek Football GIF by Jeopardy!

To the OP's intended point & reference to Interference, I believe he means that someone interfered by yelling "infield fly" as a means to cause confusion (and it worked).  Having had some experience around slow-pitch softball games as both a player and umpire, there are always some ornery guys waiting on the next game that are eager to help out the playing teams by offering advice and other opinions about how to field, hit, umpire, etc. I can totally see one of them having some fun by yelling 'infield fly' to distract the playing teams solely for his entertainment and/or to the joy of his peers.

I do agree with Maven that it can't be IFF as runners were on 1st and 3rd... not 1st and 2nd as the rule dictates (and less than 2 outs which it clearly was in the OP).     Even if someone did yell "infield fly", as long as it wasn't the defensive team or an umpire, then it's a double play.  We cannot help what those outside the field of play may do, so long as it wasn't someone on the field creating the problem, then we play on and the play stands.

If we start giving out mulligans (which is what I would assume the batting team wanted by claiming someone said IFF) every time someone says they heard something, then we'd never get anything accomplished in a game.   And if we allowed mulligans simply because someone heard something, then we'd have a lot of do-overs because we'd have an outbreak of hearing issues begin, which would require a whole bunch of new rules about who heard what when and so forth in return. 

So, sorry... in the words of the infamous Wonka:

Lose Willy Wonka GIF

 

I think NCAA had a balk call from a fan spook the pitcher who then got called for a real balk. I think when NCAA reviewed this play they advised not balking a pitcher in a sit like that. 

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29 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

I think NCAA had a balk call from a fan spook the pitcher who then got called for a real balk. I think when NCAA reviewed this play they advised not balking a pitcher in a sit like that. 

Different situation though.  One is a physical act where someone was "spooked" the other is a mental mistake in believing something is not.

If none of the Umpires heard it I think its the coach either making something up or he/she may have said it themselves in a mistake thinking it was and is covering thine own arse.

 

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31 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

I think NCAA had a balk call from a fan spook the pitcher who then got called for a real balk. I think when NCAA reviewed this play they advised not balking a pitcher in a sit like that. 

I think we must agree though that slow-pitch softball isn't quite on an even playing field with the NCAA in terms of player talent or umpires.   I will readily admit you are a far better umpire than myself and I trust you to be accurate.  I normally stay out of the rules forums as I should be learning and not speaking yet.

I am quite sure things can happen by/from fans that do affect the game.  Just off the top of my head, something thrown from the stands onto the playing field would be something that has to be addressed by the umpire.  

But is it possible to balk in slow pitch softball? :question1:

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Off-topic kinda: A very good local HS player has the last name Bauck. Yes he pitches. And yes the coaches yell at him by last name all the time...  :shrug:

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1 hour ago, wolfe_man said:

I think we must agree though that slow-pitch softball isn't quite on an even playing field with the NCAA in terms of player talent or umpires

Depends on the level...like baseball and fast-pitch, slow-pitch has recreational levels, and more competitive levels.  You'd be surprised at the talent on display at World Championships - players and umpires.   Those guys don't even have beer on the bench. :cheers:

In all cases, the rules and standards come from the most competitive levels, and then get adapted to the recreational levels.   And in some cases softball uses scenarios that happened in baseball to apply guidance...since about 90% of the rules are relevant to both sports....if you read the Official Rules of Softball (for international play) it becomes quickly evident what they used as a template.

 

1 hour ago, wolfe_man said:

But is it possible to balk in slow pitch softball? :question1:

There are no balks in any kind of softball (there are illegal pitches) - in most (all?) rules sets/leagues for slow pitch the runner can not leave the base until the ball has been hit (fastpitch they can leave when the ball leaves the pitcher's hand...in some variants, when it crosses the plate)

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16 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Depends on the level...like baseball and fast-pitch, slow-pitch has recreational levels, and more competitive levels.  You'd be surprised at the talent on display at World Championships - players and umpires.   Those guys don't even have beer on the bench. :cheers:

In all cases, the rules and standards come from the most competitive levels, and then get adapted to the recreational levels.   And in some cases softball uses scenarios that happened in baseball to apply guidance...since about 90% of the rules are relevant to both sports....if you read the Official Rules of Softball (for international play) it becomes quickly evident what they used as a template.

 

There are no balks in any kind of softball (there are illegal pitches) - in most (all?) rules sets/leagues for slow pitch the runner can not leave the base until the ball has been hit (fastpitch they can leave when the ball leaves the pitcher's hand...in some variants, when it crosses the plate)

This is America... we have competitive levels of EATING, so of course we have superior softball players & divisions.  I've even watched their version of the world series once, but wouldn't do it again.  I'm not sure I can even begin to fairly consider the average NCAA athlete to be on an equal basis with the average slow-pitch softball player though, regardless of his/her level.

And I was aware there are no balks in softball, I was being facetious.  Sorry.

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