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mac266

Whelp...I heaved a coach in a 12 year-old game

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Yesterday I was umpiring a 12 year-old game.  I gathered early on that there was already some bad blood between them when the home team head coach immediately started chirping complaints about the visiting team.  During the first at-bat, he yelled out, "Hey blue, they're using illegal bats!"  He was already angrily addressing me, as if I could spot a 1/8" difference in bat size with the naked eye.  I paused the game and checked, and sure enough, they were using 2 3/4” bats.  I know there was bad blood because a) there is no way in hell you can visually see the difference between a 2 3/4" bat and 2 5/8" from the dugout, if I have to read the label to be certain, so there was obviously some history with this and b) he was already mad.
 
At the plate meeting previously, the visiting head coach did not know some of the league rule modifications; the season is nearly over and he claimed not to know the league mods.  That tells me he either didn't bother reading them, no umpires have been enforcing them ALL SEASON LONG (unlikely), or he claims ignorance of the rules to gain an advantage.  I always make sure to go over the league modifications at the plate meeting, even this late in the season, because I have found that to be an occasional occurrence.  So right off the bat I'm thinking the visiting team is going to be my problem child, but I was wrong.  

After getting the visiting team to remove all their 2 3/4” bats, we continued the game.  In the bottom of the third inning, the home team had runners on 1st  and 2nd when the visiting team catcher let a pitch go past him.  R2 tried to steal third, but the catcher got the ball and threw to third.  I had moved slightly into fair territory to make the call but was still close to home (single umpire system due to social distancing), because the play happened so quickly.  I saw the throw beat the runner and the baseman made the tag before the runner’s foot touched the base, and I called him out.

The home team head coach was also the third base coach at the time, and he asked for time.  I gave him time, and he immediately started yelling, “You can’t see that from there!"

I replied, “Coach, there’s only one of us, I'm doing my best.”

The coach continued, “You’re letting them influence your call.  Just because they (pointing at the visiting dugout) say he’s out doesn’t mean he’s out.”

I replied, “Coach, I’m half deaf; I can’t hear what they’re saying anyway.”  
 
PAUSE:  In 2003, I was part of the ground invasion of Iraq.  War is loud.  In addition to the approximately 100 firefights I've been a part of, I once had an incoming mortar round land 10 meters from me.  Every single piece of shrapnel miraculously missed, and I was completely unscratched.  According to the book, however, the shock from the explosion alone should have turned my brain into mashed potatoes and killed me.  But it obviously didn't.  My ears started ringing, and in the 17 years since they haven't stopped.  So I live with a constant noise.  While I technically haven't lost much of my hearing, the ringing drowns out what is being said, and most people sound like Charlie Brown's teacher.  I've learned to read lips and conversation is often interrupted with "WHAT?"  Hearing aids won't help; I'm told it will merely magnify the ringing.  According to hearing tests, my actual hearing loss is minimal, but sounds get drowned out by the ringing.  It's easier to explain, "I'm half deaf" than it is to tell the whole story, because the effect is the same -- I know someone is talking, but I don't know what they are saying.  

BACK TO THE GAME:  The coach replied, “BULLSH*#!”
 
There are two egregious problems here:  1)  He's using profanity at a children's game, an immediate cause for ejection.  2) He's calling me a liar.  Not only is this a personal attack of the most severe sort, but it minimizes or deletes the entire sacrifice I made, explained above.  I didn't ruin my hearing by smoking weed while traveling around the country in a van with my rock-and-roll band.  I did it fighting the Republican Guard and everything they stood for.  Agree or disagree with what we did in Iraq, that year was probably the very purpose for which I was born.  At the very least, it was the purpose for which Uncle Sam spent years and millions of dollars preparing me for, and I did my duty and I did it well.  I will not allow that to be taken away from me.  Ever.  
 
Secondly, if you guys knew me personally, you'd know one thing:  I hold integrity as the single most important character trait any person can have.  Calling me a liar is one of those buttons that make me go nuclear, because it simply isn't who I am.  In my former law enforcement profession everyone knew this, whether they were attorneys from both sides, judges, other cops, and even suspects.  Even people who don't like me will tell you I always tell the truth.  I worked the bulk of my career in high crime areas, and even gang bangers would admit I always told the truth.  It's who I am, and something about my own character that I protect in actions, words, and even thoughts.  
 
So, cussing at a kids' game + calling me a liar = "COACH, YOU'RE GONE!"  
 
He kept cussing at me for a minute, but was slowly making his way towards the gate while doing it.  At this point my patience was absolutely zero, so I reminded him, "Coach, the next step is I rule the game a forfeit.  Leave now before I do it."  He kept jawjacking but moved faster and left the game.  

There were no further problems during the game and all of the remaining coaches for both teams were polite and sportsmanlike with each other and with me.  The team I suspected may be a problem was never a problem.  So some of the things you guys have advised me on this forum ring true:  By handling that garbage early, everyone knew I wasn't afraid to drop the hammer and behaved accordingly.  

Funny enough, after the game I was moving to a different diamond for my next game, and I saw one of my son's coaches.  We started talking, and I learned he had a younger kid on the visiting team.  He had been sitting right in front of third base when the incident happened, so I asked him if I had been right on the out call.  To be frank, I was only about 75% certain when I made the call; my angle wasn't the best.  He told me he thought the call was right, so I felt a bit vindicated.
 
Even if I was wrong (please note the difference between being wrong and being a LIAR), was it worth acting like a total jackass and setting a very poor example for 12 year-olds?  Go take a shower, coach.
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2 hours ago, mac266 said:

The home team head coach was also the third base coach at the time, and he asked for time.  I gave him time, and he immediately started yelling, “You can’t see that from there!"

I replied, “Coach, there’s only one of us, I'm doing my best.”

I have no problem with the ejection. But you might consider this response, which is defensive.

In some of these cases, I'll move directly to "Knock it off. There's no arguing judgment calls. This is your warning." Typically, these jackwagons will step over the line immediately, and I'll facilitate their departure.

An intermediate step, for a coach who's been OK so far, is to put him in his place a bit. "Coach, if you have a question, you may come out and ask in a normal tone of voice." That frames the allowable parameters for mature discussion among adults, and gives him a gracious way to STFU. Again, if he can't observe the parameters, he may rant and rave outside the confines of the ball field.

If he does come out, I'll start: "What did you see?" I'll give him his say, in a normal tone of voice, which is mostly what he wants. When he's done, or a reasonable time has elapsed, or he starts to repeat himself, I'll say: "OK Coach, I had the ball beating the runner and the tag down in time. He's out. Let's play ball." And that's it: a direct exchange of views, politely delivered, and ended promptly.

We should tolerate and indulge in nothing else.

2 hours ago, mac266 said:

The coach continued, “You’re letting them influence your call.  Just because they (pointing at the visiting dugout) say he’s out doesn’t mean he’s out.”

He's accusing you of cheating. Call him out: "Coach, are you accusing me of cheating?" If he says yes, dump him. If he says no, then tell him to KTSO and that's his warning. If your league allows restriction to the dugout, do that. He's lost his privilege to discuss calls with this remark.

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4 hours ago, mac266 said:
 At this point my patience was absolutely zero, so I reminded him, "Coach, the next step is I rule the game a forfeit.  Leave now before I do it." 

Don't. Umpires, as a matter of practicality, will not forfeit a game (unless we have been told specifically to handle given situations with that consequence.) We suspend and let the governing body determine the outcome.

  1. An umpire will already be perceived by some as biased and/or emotional because of the conflict of the coach. Sometimes this may actually be true.
  2. Having the governing body rule on it strengthens the credibility of the umpire.
  3. If the governing body does not agree that it should be a forfeit, the umpire has not declared something that was reversed (which it would have been anyway if they had declared one.)

 

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Thank You for Your Service!

It's good to see you're striving to improve, and by coming here and sharing your experiences and seeking advice proves it. 

I have read previous posts, and the one thing that stands out is in every situation, someone is yelling at you. Stop that behavior quickly!

Sometime, we have to keep coaches in the game so we can educate them, not only for ourselves, but for the next guy. Not to mention, a lot of these coaches move up as their child does, at least in my area, so you're likely to see them for years to come. We have to be more professional than them.  We have to gain their respect. Ejecting them doesn't get respect, it just gets you scratched :mad:

A couple thing to share.  Well, a few.  

Appearance! Shoes cleaned, shirt and pants pressed, hat cleaned and pleated , ball bags too is a start. 

I once went to do a game out of town, AAAA school, nice stadium, I had the dish. At the end of the plate meeting, I asked if there were any questions? One of the coaches replied, " not today, you look like you know what you're doing and I plan on sticking around". 

Positioning and crisp mechanics!  Long fly ball down 3BL, get down there!  Normally the manager is coaching third and has a better view of it. Once had the coaches son hit a shot that was definitely going over, only question was if it was fair/foul.  Before he could turn around and plead his case it was fair, "FOUL"!  He said, "You scared the SH*# out of me! You're the only umpire I've seen make it this far. (with a smile) Good call".  I asked, "about a foot"? He replied, "ten inches".

Don't yell back!  Well, try not to. If you do, don't be justifiable. "Not today coach". "Time! You have something you wanna say to me coach come and talk to me, but you're not gonna yell at me from 90' away"!  Sometimes it works for both sides because the other coach hears that you're not going to tolerate that behavior, as well as the players and fans. There is also the line up card technique. There is also a lot of time during the game you can have a little 1 on 1 time.   I prefer " The Look".   

Don't have rabbit ears!  What you can't hear can't offend you. Run away when you can and get back in position. Especially after a close call at the end of an inning.  The coach may want to question it but he sees you running into RT CF, he may just abandon his efforts! ;) 

As I understand it, you're doing games solo. Be in control but not controlling.  "Coach, in my judgement..." Is a useful tool.  They seem to understand their next words can have consequences.  

An assistant coach was coaching 1st as they usually do.  The first banger of the game, of course, he jumps up yelling and signaling safe! "OUT" was my reply, along with, "Coach, if you're not going to make any OUT calls today, please don't make any SAFE ones".  He smiled and nodded his head.  On the next banger, I looked at him, he looked at me with his eyes wide open holding his breath trying to restrain from his usual antics.  There was a disturbing pause as I pointed to him to make the call, "OUT"  he said.  I confirmed his call.  Everyone in the ballpark laughed.  One more coach I never had to worry about.  

This is coming from a guy who once dumped 3 coaches in 40 seconds.  They deserved it but I also wanted to show I wasn't gonna tolerate their SH*#.  I was the new guy in town and still here. They, on the other hand, were replaced the next season.  Sometime they have to go.  Make sure they deserve it.  

Good Luck!

Disclaimer: Some things mentioned may not work for everyone.  

 

 

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7 hours ago, mac266 said:
Yesterday I was umpiring a 12 year-old game.  I gathered early on that there was already some bad blood between them when the home team head coach immediately started chirping complaints about the visiting team.  During the first at-bat, he yelled out, "Hey blue, they're using illegal bats!"  He was already angrily addressing me, as if I could spot a 1/8" difference in bat size with the naked eye.  I paused the game and checked, and sure enough, they were using 2 3/4” bats.  I know there was bad blood because a) there is no way in hell you can visually see the difference between a 2 3/4" bat and 2 5/8" from the dugout, if I have to read the label to be certain, so there was obviously some history with this and b) he was already mad.
 
At the plate meeting previously, the visiting head coach did not know some of the league rule modifications; the season is nearly over and he claimed not to know the league mods.  That tells me he either didn't bother reading them, no umpires have been enforcing them ALL SEASON LONG (unlikely), or he claims ignorance of the rules to gain an advantage.  I always make sure to go over the league modifications at the plate meeting, even this late in the season, because I have found that to be an occasional occurrence.  So right off the bat I'm thinking the visiting team is going to be my problem child, but I was wrong.  

After getting the visiting team to remove all their 2 3/4” bats, we continued the game.  In the bottom of the third inning, the home team had runners on 1st  and 2nd when the visiting team catcher let a pitch go past him.  R2 tried to steal third, but the catcher got the ball and threw to third.  I had moved slightly into fair territory to make the call but was still close to home (single umpire system due to social distancing), because the play happened so quickly.  I saw the throw beat the runner and the baseman made the tag before the runner’s foot touched the base, and I called him out.

The home team head coach was also the third base coach at the time, and he asked for time.  I gave him time, and he immediately started yelling, “You can’t see that from there!"

I replied, “Coach, there’s only one of us, I'm doing my best.”

The coach continued, “You’re letting them influence your call.  Just because they (pointing at the visiting dugout) say he’s out doesn’t mean he’s out.”

I replied, “Coach, I’m half deaf; I can’t hear what they’re saying anyway.”  
 
PAUSE:  In 2003, I was part of the ground invasion of Iraq.  War is loud.  In addition to the approximately 100 firefights I've been a part of, I once had an incoming mortar round land 10 meters from me.  Every single piece of shrapnel miraculously missed, and I was completely unscratched.  According to the book, however, the shock from the explosion alone should have turned my brain into mashed potatoes and killed me.  But it obviously didn't.  My ears started ringing, and in the 17 years since they haven't stopped.  So I live with a constant noise.  While I technically haven't lost much of my hearing, the ringing drowns out what is being said, and most people sound like Charlie Brown's teacher.  I've learned to read lips and conversation is often interrupted with "WHAT?"  Hearing aids won't help; I'm told it will merely magnify the ringing.  According to hearing tests, my actual hearing loss is minimal, but sounds get drowned out by the ringing.  It's easier to explain, "I'm half deaf" than it is to tell the whole story, because the effect is the same -- I know someone is talking, but I don't know what they are saying.  

BACK TO THE GAME:  The coach replied, “BULLSH*#!”
 
There are two egregious problems here:  1)  He's using profanity at a children's game, an immediate cause for ejection.  2) He's calling me a liar.  Not only is this a personal attack of the most severe sort, but it minimizes or deletes the entire sacrifice I made, explained above.  I didn't ruin my hearing by smoking weed while traveling around the country in a van with my rock-and-roll band.  I did it fighting the Republican Guard and everything they stood for.  Agree or disagree with what we did in Iraq, that year was probably the very purpose for which I was born.  At the very least, it was the purpose for which Uncle Sam spent years and millions of dollars preparing me for, and I did my duty and I did it well.  I will not allow that to be taken away from me.  Ever.  
 
Secondly, if you guys knew me personally, you'd know one thing:  I hold integrity as the single most important character trait any person can have.  Calling me a liar is one of those buttons that make me go nuclear, because it simply isn't who I am.  In my former law enforcement profession everyone knew this, whether they were attorneys from both sides, judges, other cops, and even suspects.  Even people who don't like me will tell you I always tell the truth.  I worked the bulk of my career in high crime areas, and even gang bangers would admit I always told the truth.  It's who I am, and something about my own character that I protect in actions, words, and even thoughts.  
 
So, cussing at a kids' game + calling me a liar = "COACH, YOU'RE GONE!"  
 
He kept cussing at me for a minute, but was slowly making his way towards the gate while doing it.  At this point my patience was absolutely zero, so I reminded him, "Coach, the next step is I rule the game a forfeit.  Leave now before I do it."  He kept jawjacking but moved faster and left the game.  

There were no further problems during the game and all of the remaining coaches for both teams were polite and sportsmanlike with each other and with me.  The team I suspected may be a problem was never a problem.  So some of the things you guys have advised me on this forum ring true:  By handling that garbage early, everyone knew I wasn't afraid to drop the hammer and behaved accordingly.  

Funny enough, after the game I was moving to a different diamond for my next game, and I saw one of my son's coaches.  We started talking, and I learned he had a younger kid on the visiting team.  He had been sitting right in front of third base when the incident happened, so I asked him if I had been right on the out call.  To be frank, I was only about 75% certain when I made the call; my angle wasn't the best.  He told me he thought the call was right, so I felt a bit vindicated.
 
Even if I was wrong (please note the difference between being wrong and being a LIAR), was it worth acting like a total jackass and setting a very poor example for 12 year-olds?  Go take a shower, coach.

Two more things from one who has been similarly situated as you:

  1. Pissed-off coaches don't want your explanation. You could prove that you had no ability to hear what was said whatsoever, and they won't care. In their mind, they're mad, you're the villain, and you're to blame. Look at some of the tools mentioned in this thread--shut them down, put the ball back in their court, or make them commit to their unsporting comments.
  2. Any accusations against an umpire's integrity need to be addressed seriously, but remember that they are not based on any personal trait you have or do not have (despite their personal nature.) Do not take them personally, and address them unemotionally. If you remember Army resilience training, integrity seems to be an iceberg (that's not a bad thing, but remember how we have to deal with our responses to things that strike our icebergs.) An example of this was a few weeks after returning from an Iraq deployment (we had done the longest combat deployment of the war.) I was accused of being on a power trip, and I internalized it (thinking about how they're clueless after what I've been doing for the past two years, I'm here to relax, etc.), which in turn led to at least one ejection that may have been avoided. While those comments are personal in nature, they are not addressed at the actual Mac or Matt or whoever.
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8 hours ago, Tborze said:

I have read previous posts, and the one thing that stands out is in every situation, someone is yelling at you. Stop that behavior quickly!

To clarify, I've worked a lot of games this summer and don't bother posting about games where I showed up, did my job, and went home.  I already have a few coaches who say, "Oh good, it's you" when I show up.  So what you're reading about are the outliers.

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8 hours ago, Tborze said:

An assistant coach was coaching 1st as they usually do.  The first banger of the game, of course, he jumps up yelling and signaling safe! "OUT" was my reply, along with, "Coach, if you're not going to make any OUT calls today, please don't make any SAFE ones".  He smiled and nodded his head.  On the next banger, I looked at him, he looked at me with his eyes wide open holding his breath trying to restrain from his usual antics.  There was a disturbing pause as I pointed to him to make the call, "OUT"  he said.  I confirmed his call.  Everyone in the ballpark laughed.  One more coach I never had to worry about.  

I think knowing oneself is vital to umpiring, or any endeavor for that matter.  I know myself better than a lot of people know themselves, and I think I have a fairly accurate picture of how people see me (according to research, this amount of self awareness is very rare, by the way, and it comes from a *TON* of leadership training I've undergone over the years, 360 degree feedback mechanisms, etc.).  If you were to see me in person, you would immediately know that I am military, and you may even ascertain that I am also a retired police officer.  I carry myself like both.  I simply LOOK and ACT like both, and the whole world knows it.  I've been in uniform since I was 17 years old (yes, this is legal as long as you graduate from training before your 18th birthday so you can immediately deploy to combat, if needed), and now that I'm middle aged, has moulded me more than anything else.

Once I was walking around in New York City in civilian attire, when an NYPD cop spotted me and yelled, "Hey buddy, how long you been on da job?"  He just knew.  "On the job" is a euphemism for being a cop, by the way.  I have a habit of watching people, checking deep corners, looking over my shoulder, and especially watching peoples' hands (they kill you with their hands) and body language, just like every other cop in the world.  Normally I would be carrying a concealed gun, which cops can also spot, but didn't have one because I was traveling.  But he still knew, just by the way I carry myself.  

Another time I was getting a tattoo (my first and only), and the artist was regaling me with stories of life inside the penitentiary.  Two and one-half hours into this three hour tattoo, and he spun the chair around to look me in the face (the tattoo is on the back of my shoulder), and asked, "You're a cop, aren't you?"  When I asked how he knew, he replied, "You can spot us.  We can spot you, too."  He did a great job on the ink, by the way.

I live and work in a military town, was a  cop in the same town, and was active duty Army in that town before that.  Whenever I meet someone for the first time, they inevitably ask, "So what unit are you in?" since there are several bases here.  Even though I switched to the Reserves to start my law enforcement career (yeah, I've retired from that one but am still in the Army!), they still know.  

All this to say, knowing my own personality, your technique -- although rather awesome -- would not be received the same way if I used it.  It would be perceived completely differently than when you did it.  No one would laugh, and they would all talk about how the umpire was sarcastic and "baited" the coach into an argument so he could heave him.  So even though that tactic is rather artful, I'm going to skip it.

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11 hours ago, mac266 said:

All this to say, knowing my own personality, your technique -- although rather awesome -- would not be received the same way if I used it.  It would be perceived completely differently than when you did it.  No one would laugh, and they would all talk about how the umpire was sarcastic and "baited" the coach into an argument so he could heave him.  So even though that tactic is rather artful, I'm going to skip it.

Good for you. You're way ahead of the curve in learning game management if you recognize that what works for some will not work for all. 

You're more in the "you respect the shît out of me, and I'll respect the shît out of you" camp. I get it, and we have a couple guys on here from the same school. In my experience, newer guys in that school who are aware they might be perceived as redass (short-fused, irascible) sometimes end up being too patient with jackwagon coaches. They're going to label you redass no matter when you deal with them, so give yourself a break and do it early.

It's never to early to dump a jackwagon.™

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More great content from, @maven as always...

Not only is it never too early to dump a jackwagon...I have never walked off a field having ejected a player or coach and thought, "Meh...I really shouldn't have ejected that coach/player. That was a mistake." Never...not one time.

But, I have certainly walked off a field having ejected a player or coach and thought, "Damn...I really should have ejected that player/coach sooner. That SH*# show went on way too long."

And of course, just to repeat the mantra of this forum and our profession...It's not the umpire ejecting a player or coach. It's the umpire professionally responding to a player or coach's ejection-able behavior or speech. A lot of the LEO's here can speak at greater length and detail about response versus escalation. 

Nothing showcases a player or coach better than for them to be yelling and screaming while you calmly toss them...and walk away saying little to nothing, because you are the professional. It's never personal for me and YMMV...it's about respect for the umpires and honor and respect of the game of baseball.

~Dog

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12 hours ago, mac266 said:

To clarify, I've worked a lot of games this summer and don't bother posting about games where I showed up, did my job, and went home.  I already have a few coaches who say, "Oh good, it's you" when I show up.  So what you're reading about are the outliers.

The only "better" feeling in youth baseball..............is when the PLAYERS say that.

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34 minutes ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

The only "better" feeling in youth baseball..............is when the PLAYERS say that.

Au contraire: better still is all the hot moms who are glad to see me.

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Happily Married.   Well, SWMBO is Happy.......and I'm Married.

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12 minutes ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

Happily Married.   Well, SWMBO is Happy.......and I'm Married.

I'm happily married. But who doesn't like the attention of hot moms?

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5 minutes ago, maven said:

I'm happily married. But who doesn't like the attention of hot moms?

Well, that's just asking for another nightmare.   I finally found a woman to put up with my SH..........antics.  I don't need to ruin that.

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On 8/3/2020 at 8:54 AM, Aging_Arbiter said:

Happily Married.   Well, SWMBO is Happy.......and I'm Married.

But she let's you buy gear randomly. I feel like this is a gold trade.

Oh... my favorite part of the original story was the "I'm half deaf" and meaning it! I laughed far to hard at that comment.

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How many times have you heard this?  "Hey Blue!  Call it the same for both sides!"

Bango!  He's openly challenging my integrity.  Ain't happening!

Mike

Las Vegas

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4 minutes ago, Vegas_Ump said:

 "Hey Blue!  Call it the same for both sides!"

The BEST is when you hear that after the 1st pitch!   Gotta love those guys that make you laugh!

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3 minutes ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

The BEST is when you hear that after the 1st pitch!   Gotta love those guys that make you laugh!

LOL!  In fact, a fellow ump at WR had his crew of cronies sitting behind home plate, and yes, after the first pitch they were all over him like a cheap suit.  Yes, it was hilarious!

Mike

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On 8/3/2020 at 10:51 AM, maven said:

Au contraire: better still is all the hot moms who are glad to see me.

I know the one your talking about and I'm pretty sure her name is Trouble. She's the little sister of "You shouldn't" and "You know better"!

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5 hours ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

The BEST is when you hear that after the 1st pitch!   Gotta love those guys that make you laugh!

Speaking of that...had a HS playoff game last year and the FIRST pitch of the game splits the plate, thigh-high...dad yells "get ready to swing at everything, he's all over the place". I never do this but I turned around laughing....I had to see the guy that said that. 

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1 hour ago, aaluck said:

Speaking of that...had a HS playoff game last year and the FIRST pitch of the game splits the plate, thigh-high...dad yells "get ready to swing at everything, he's all over the place". I never do this but I turned around laughing....I had to see the guy that said that. 

Or they'll yell...scoot up to the plate...he's calling them outside.

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On 8/2/2020 at 8:42 AM, mac266 said:

I replied, “Coach, I’m half deaf; I can’t hear what they’re saying anyway

Thank you for your service and all that you went through and continue to still. 
 

my only issue is your response that I quoted above.  When I first read through and before you started your backstory I though this was a snarky response. Maybe HC did as well, doesn’t justify swearing and all that followed but I do wonder if it’ll get you down a wrong path.  
 

im not you, I don’t live with the ringing so I don’t have the right “comeback”, but to me it struck me as off. Maybe your tone comes off jokingly with an attempt to diffuse with truth intermixed with humor. Don’t know, not there, just something that doesn't fully sit right with me. 

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On 8/2/2020 at 1:01 PM, Matt said:

Don't. Umpires, as a matter of practicality, will not forfeit a game (unless we have been told specifically to handle given situations with that consequence.) We suspend and let the governing body determine the outcome.

  1. An umpire will already be perceived by some as biased and/or emotional because of the conflict of the coach. Sometimes this may actually be true.
  2. Having the governing body rule on it strengthens the credibility of the umpire.
  3. If the governing body does not agree that it should be a forfeit, the umpire has not declared something that was reversed (which it would have been anyway if they had declared one.)

 

I am not afraid to forfeit a game when the rules allow it and the situation warrants it. I have forfeited the game described in an earlier thread. I was also the U2 for a varsity girls basketball game that ended in a forfeit when the home coach walked off the floor to protest that his player was ejected for using profanity directed at an official ("these are some Bull$#!t refs"). He was arguing after the free throws were shot, I had to assess him a T (He waved off my partner in the Trail, the Referee, and told him "that's ridiculous" after being warned by the U1(the Lead official) for coming towards him to argue an out of bounds call and kicking the ball), and I told him that he lost coaching box privileges. I did this because I was the only official not involved in the original sequence of events. He chose to leave the court, so the Referee decided to declare a forfeit. That said, I really prefer not to forfeit games unless I have to. A coach not complying with sportsmanship rules, especially after ejection, is definitely grounds for a forfeit where the rules allow for one. 

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6 hours ago, ilyazhito said:

I am not afraid to forfeit a game when the rules allow it and the situation warrants it. I have forfeited the game described in an earlier thread. I was also the U2 for a varsity girls basketball game that ended in a forfeit when the home coach walked off the floor to protest that his player was ejected for using profanity directed at an official ("these are some Bull$#!t refs"). He was arguing after the free throws were shot, I had to assess him a T (He waved off my partner in the Trail, the Referee, and told him "that's ridiculous" after being warned by the U1(the Lead official) for coming towards him to argue an out of bounds call and kicking the ball), and I told him that he lost coaching box privileges. I did this because I was the only official not involved in the original sequence of events. He chose to leave the court, so the Referee decided to declare a forfeit. That said, I really prefer not to forfeit games unless I have to. A coach not complying with sportsmanship rules, especially after ejection, is definitely grounds for a forfeit where the rules allow for one. 

It's not about fear. 

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