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Matt

Batter makes 3rd out; does R2's run count?

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The thread about R3 stealing and reaching home before the strikeout got me thinking.

R3, R2, 2 out. Pitch gets away from F2, R3 scores easily. For some reason F2 cannot get to the ball quickly and R2 attempts to score. Batter interferes with the play at the plate...does R3's run score?

I have my thoughts.

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According to J/R, when the batter interferes in this manner he is treated as an "other teammate" and not as "a batter."  So,. R2 is out for the third out and R3's run counts.

image.png.b934c22c57f1517a7c7efab124800b95.png

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I checked my copy of the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual for this bit of text quoted by Mr. noumpere and it is not quite the same. So that tells me that Mr. noumpere’s citation was not taken from the most recent edition. Before the 2017 edition the J/R had not issued an update since 2010 so that is the most recent that his citation could be. That places it before the 2015 reformatting and recodification of the OBR rules so the rules referenced (7.09e and 7.11) are now wrong.

Mr. noumpere, since you did not provide the current rule numbers prepare yourself to be castigated by Mr. The Man in Blue. And don’t dare to explain or defend yourself because you will be accused of spewing. You gotta think of all those poor lurkers and umpire rookies who aren’t bright enough to know these references are now out of date.

Mr. noumpere, did you happen to notice the following text just a few short paragraphs later in the J/R manual?

Penalty:  If an offensive teammate interferes

(a) on a play, the runner being played against is declared out. Exception:  If there are two outs and a pitch goes wild past the catcher, and a batter—who has not become a runner—interferes with a subsequent play at the plate, the batter (and not the runner being played against) is out for the interference. No run can score on this play.

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51 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

Penalty:  If an offensive teammate interferes

(a) on a play, the runner being played against is declared out. Exception:  If there are two outs and a pitch goes wild past the catcher, and a batter—who has not become a runner—interferes with a subsequent play at the plate, the batter (and not the runner being played against) is out for the interference. No run can score on this play.

This sounds right to me (for all that's worth): when the batter interferes with 2 outs, we don't want him coming to bat next inning. The only way for that to happen is if he makes the 3rd out; but then he's out before reaching 1B, and no run can score.

Glad J/R changed that one. I'd bet Wendelstedt is too.

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Mr. maven, the ruling I cited from the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual was exactly the same in the 2010 edition (section VI of chapter 13, p. 116). It did not change—it was always in agreement with Mr. Wendelstedt and you.

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3 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

Mr. noumpere, did you happen to notice the following text just a few short paragraphs later in the J/R manual?

 

I did not -- thank you for pointing it out.

 

That ruling makes more sense to me.

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On 7/27/2020 at 2:11 PM, Senor Azul said:Mr. noumpere, since you did not provide the current rule numbers prepare yourself to be castigated by Mr. The Man in Blue. And don’t dare to explain or defend yourself because you will be accused of spewing. You gotta think of all those poor lurkers and umpire rookies who aren’t bright enough to know these references are now out of date.


Nah, I’ll just chalk it up as an interpretation.  :insertevillaughhere:

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If ANY offensive player commits Interference, doesn't this require ALL runners to return to TOP position?

Now, if said INT is the third out, the runners would be constructively placed back, the third out is registered, and NO runs score.

If there are two outs, and the situation requires the batter to be called out on INT, this provision was installed to ensure that the batter's time at bat is complete;  therefore he does NOT lead off in the next inning (and provoke  a possible BOO situation.)

JMO

Mike

Las Vegas

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18 minutes ago, Vegas_Ump said:

If ANY offensive player commits Interference, doesn't this require ALL runners to return to TOP position?

Now, if said INT is the third out, the runners would be constructively placed back, the third out is registered, and NO runs score.

If there are two outs, and the situation requires the batter to be called out on INT, this provision was installed to ensure that the batter's time at bat is complete;  therefore he does NOT lead off in the next inning (and provoke  a possible BOO situation.)

JMO

Mike

Las Vegas

The first premise is another question. There are times it's TOP; there are times it's TOI. You are correct that if it is TOP, then the timing of the interference is irrelevant.

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