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Shot to the face...Pads question

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2 hours ago, umpstu said:

I have a very thick neck so the weight doesn't bother me. I could never get the harness on the F3 adjusted so that my hat would stay on.

Try the Ump Life harness on the F3 mask.Big difference

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14 hours ago, JimKirk said:

The skull cap with the very short bill is by All Star. They should be available for retail in September. Highly encouraged by MiLB and MLB, and umpires are starting to wear.

Jim,

Will All Star offer the new short-bill version in both navy and black?  I ask because I can only wear black in the summer and fall leagues , we're still navy for OHSAA baseball.

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10 hours ago, Mr Ump said:

Try the Ump Life harness on the F3 mask.Big difference

In my humble opinion, F3 should only be worn with an UL mask harness on it.  It makes that much of a difference.

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27 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

Jim,

Will All Star offer the new short-bill version in both navy and black?  I ask because I can only wear black in the summer and fall leagues , we're still navy for OHSAA baseball.

Good question. Black only. Can you wear a black hockey style helmet for OHSAA or does that have to be navy? (I know the answer. Just making a point.)

I know someone at OHSAA‘S officiating department. If you think it’ll be a problem, let me know. Happy to talk to him or anyone else out there.

Speaking of out there, if any of you have any league heads or assigners who are making compromises on your safety due to “that’s the way we’ve always done things” mentality, I’d be happy to speak with them. DO NOT HESITATE TO USE ME AS A RESOURCE OR ADVOCATE FOR YOU!

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9 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

Will All-Star offer the new short-bill version in both navy and black?  I ask because I can only wear black in the summer and fall leagues, we're still navy for OHSAA (Ohio) baseball.

Question. Of. The. YEAR!!!! If we thought that a (mandated) navy shirt looks awkward with a black hat / black mask combo, or a black HSM, it’s going to be repeated with this hard hat.

Additionally, I would recommend that All-Star places (or allows for) a loop patch (velcro) to be placed on the front. There are plenty of anal ornery obstinate pedantic stubborn particular Association leaders who will be stressing out over officials not wearing the association hat. How will anybody recognize you as an “association-certified” official??? How???

... and Wisconsin, and Michigan, and Indiana, and Pennsylvania, and Virginia, and New Jersey, and... am I forgetting any? Any states still trapped in the past? Needlessly holding on to “heritage” and “tradition”?

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Anyone have any first hand experience with the Under Armour Windpact (Air Bags) mask/pad combo?  I'm really intrigued by it, but it's a pretty expensive mask just to try out (especially when I have to FM4000 steels that are fine).  I know those pads don't appear to be interchangeable into other masks, but maybe the whole set-up is an option to consider.

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5 minutes ago, Rock Bottom said:

I just remembered those pads don't appear to be interchangeable into other masks.

Why wouldn’t they be? There’s nothing unique to the UnderArmour FM2 that precludes the use of specific pads, such as is the case with the Force3 Defender. The FM2 is merely a latest-gen FM25 (I have a hunch it’s the same planform as the FM25-Ti-II), just gussied up for UA branding purposes (see the U and A in the bars?).

So, UnderArmour bought up / out the Cloud Crash technology. That kind of investment is reflected in the price... and from what we’re seeing so far, the pads aren’t being sold separately. That’s not to say it still won’t happen... I can see UA making a big push to get their brand seen on baseball broadcasts, especially in response to Nike getting the uniform contract. And, as we know, Wilson still keeps their old, bony claws in the Umpire contract... so what’s left? Catchers. UA already took All-Star’s MVP4000 HSM, tweaked it to make it look even more advanced, swapped out the cage, and stuck the brand on it. Same is going to happen with this TM.

And if All-Star is no longer going to share methodology with UA (ie. Magnesium), then UA is going to go its own route. 

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6 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Why wouldn’t they be? There’s nothing unique to the UnderArmour FM2 that precludes the use of specific pads, such as is the case with the Force3 Defender. The FM2 is merely a latest-gen FM25 (I have a hunch it’s the same planform as the FM25-Ti-II), just gussied up for UA branding purposes (see the U and A in the bars?).

So, UnderArmour bought up / out the Cloud Crash technology. That kind of investment is reflected in the price... and from what we’re seeing so far, the pads aren’t being sold separately. That’s not to say it still won’t happen... I can see UA making a big push to get their brand seen on baseball broadcasts, especially in response to Nike getting the uniform contract. And, as we know, Wilson still keeps their old, bony claws in the Umpire contract... so what’s left? Catchers. UA already took All-Star’s MVP4000 HSM, tweaked it to make it look even more advanced, swapped out the cage, and stuck the brand on it. Same is going to happen with this TM.

And if All-Star is no longer going to share methodology with UA (ie. Magnesium), then UA is going to go its own route. 

Based on the pics it looks like they sort of snap in place. See the second pic where the mask is lying flat: 

https://www.ump-attire.com/Baseball-Umpire-Equipment/Gear-Footwear/Masks/UAFM2-WP-BK_Under-Armour-Silver-Umpire-Mask-with-Black-Windpact

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1 hour ago, Rock Bottom said:

Based on the pics it looks like they sort of snap in place. See the second pic where the mask is lying flat: 

Okay, well, the mask layout dictated where they placed anchor loops, but that can be overcome.

The concept is sound, and certainly can be commuted into other mask frames. If you really think about it, the specific mask frame (other than the Force3 Defender) is irrelevant. Could you imagine an Icon, in either titanium or Titanal, and equipped with these Crash Cloud pads??

 

 

 

I can. FTW!

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4 hours ago, MadMax said:

Question. Of. The. YEAR!!!! If we thought that a (mandated) navy shirt looks awkward with a black hat / black mask combo, or a black HSM, it’s going to be repeated with this hard hat.

Additionally, I would recommend that All-Star places (or allows for) a loop patch (velcro) to be placed on the front. There are plenty of anal ornery obstinate pedantic stubborn particular Association leaders who will be stressing out over officials not wearing the association hat. How will anybody recognize you as an “association-certified” official??? How???

... and Wisconsin, and Michigan, and Indiana, and Pennsylvania, and Virginia, and New Jersey, and... am I forgetting any? Any states still trapped in the past? Needlessly holding on to “heritage” and “tradition”?

Don’t forget Illinois wearing Navy for the playoffs so the older umps in the bottom of the state. don’t have to wear / buy black.

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4 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

In my humble opinion, F3 should only be worn with an UL mask harness on it.  It makes that much of a difference.

Say it again and louder for the people in the back of the room.

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On 7/27/2020 at 7:50 PM, umpstu said:

I have a very thick neck so the weight doesn't bother me. I could never get the harness on the F3 adjusted so that my hat would stay on.

Also a thick head. :cheers:

8 hours ago, Mr Ump said:

Say it again and louder for the people in the back of the room.

Now I'm wondering if I should get the cam buckle version? 

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7 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

Now I'm wondering if I should get the cam buckle version? 

Yes.  By all accounts that I have heard, it's better. 

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On 7/27/2020 at 7:51 PM, JimKirk said:

The skull cap with the very short bill is by All Star. They should be available for retail in September. Highly encouraged by MiLB and MLB, and umpires are starting to wear.

Thanks Jim. I look forward to this coming out. I saw another one yesterday, and I haven’t even caught many games outside my area. 

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On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2020 at 7:51 PM, JimKirk said:

The skull cap with the very short bill is by All Star. They should be available for retail in September. Highly encouraged by MiLB and MLB, and umpires are starting to wear.

Duplicate post

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16 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

Yes.  By all accounts that I have heard, it's better. 

GREAT.... guess that's something else to add to the next Ump-attire order along with the shoe rake (which looks AMAZING!)

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On 7/28/2020 at 12:16 PM, JimKirk said:

Good question. Black only. Can you wear a black hockey style helmet for OHSAA or does that have to be navy? (I know the answer. Just making a point.)

I know someone at OHSAA‘S officiating department. If you think it’ll be a problem, let me know. Happy to talk to him or anyone else out there.

Speaking of out there, if any of you have any league heads or assigners who are making compromises on your safety due to “that’s the way we’ve always done things” mentality, I’d be happy to speak with them. DO NOT HESITATE TO USE ME AS A RESOURCE OR ADVOCATE FOR YOU!

Any reason you guys aren't a OHSAA supplier?  I fear I know the answer but never understood with how close you guys are to Ohio.....

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5 hours ago, FranklinT said:

Any reason you guys aren't a OHSAA supplier?  I fear I know the answer but never understood with how close you guys are to Ohio.....

Good question. We do have some really good customers from Ohio and send a decent amount of orders that way.

Regarding the OHSAA, we are just being a good competitor. Purchase Officials does a really good job servicing the OHSAA and has been doing so for a long time. They put the time in to go to lots of association and state meetings, not to mention having a storefront in Akron. They deserve the OHSAA business.

Purchase also owns the Refsmart line that we carry, so that seems to be a fair trade-off.

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2 hours ago, JimKirk said:

Good question. We do have some really good customers from Ohio and send a decent amount of orders that way.

Regarding the OHSAA, we are just being a good competitor. Purchase Officials does a really good job servicing the OHSAA and has been doing so for a long time. They put the time in to go to lots of association and state meetings, not to mention having a storefront in Akron. They deserve the OHSAA business.

Purchase also owns the Refsmart line that we carry, so that seems to be a fair trade-off.

That's nice of you.

Most guys in my area work with Purchase Officials or a local shop called Fleming's out of Columbus.  Both attend our mandatory meetings in late February to early March.  They bring a lot of gear and uniforms with them for guys to try on and purchase if they like it. Plus, any web orders placed with them can be picked up that night for free if they mention they'll be at the meeting.

There are other suppliers who carry OHSAA products although I've never used them.  I normally work with Purchase Officials as they are the best prices for OHSAA gear and I always have my stuff within 2 days of ordering.

I will say though that neither PO or Fleming's carries anywhere near the level of inventory or selection that UA does.  UA normally is equal or better-priced on most items too, so other than actual OHSAA gear itself, I mostly use UA as my supplier.

Personal Request:   I would like to see the All Star MAG pads and regular LUC pads added for purchasing if possible.  I'd also ask for Honig's pads, but I realize that is a competitor and not a supplier.

 

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I would KILL to have a different supplier for Washington! Right now, we have Gerry Davis, whom I used to deal with all the time. But our state shirts are sublimated Cliff Keen shirts. They might be the JUNKIEST shirts I have ever worn! Any kind of crease to them removes the died color and shows white fabric. They are hot and do not breath well at all. I wear a jacket of some sort (usually a convertible one) rather than wear that god awful thing!

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6 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

I would KILL to have a different supplier for Washington! Right now, we have Gerry Davis, whom I used to deal with all the time. But our state shirts are sublimated Cliff Keen shirts. They might be the JUNKIEST shirts I have ever worn! Any kind of crease to them removes the died color and shows white fabric. They are hot and do not breath well at all. I wear a jacket of some sort (usually a convertible one) rather than wear that god awful thing!

Arik, just an idea, but I know guys that buy Smitty stuff, then go an have a logo put on it.   The OHSAA logo (and I doubt the WHSAA or whatever Washington's logo is) is not trademarked or copyrighted, so you can add it without any fear of retaliation.  Shoot, one of our suppliers will do it if you ask them and pay the $10.  I had a friend even get one for his plate coat.

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I'd really like to see TW come out with pads for my F3........

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20 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

Arik, just an idea, but I know guys that buy Smitty stuff, then go an have a logo put on it.   The OHSAA logo (and I doubt the WHSAA or whatever Washington's logo is) is not trademarked or copyrighted, so you can add it without any fear of retaliation.  Shoot, one of our suppliers will do it if you ask them and pay the $10.  I had a friend even get one for his plate coat.

THAT IS AN INCREDIBLE IDEA KEITH! I might have to look into that. I just wonder how I would get the WOA and WIAA (nice try at trying to figure out the state acronyms) sublimated patches put on there. Plus the American flag on the collar?

14 hours ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

I'd really like to see TW come out with pads for my F3........

I believe I mentioned earlier that I would love to see a non leather option for the Force3.

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On 7/31/2020 at 1:43 PM, Aging_Arbiter said:

I'd really like to see TW come out with pads for my F3.......

Not necessary. I wouldn’t put the burden on Team Wendys itself, considering they have enough to do on fulfilling government and SAR contracts, and have them disturb their production of standard pads.

What would be more desirable is for Force3 to make mircofiber-encased pads, primarily for us (umpires), that we can opt for instead of leather. The leather pads were made primarily for catchers, because what do catchers do with their masks, folks? Yup, toss / knock them on the ground! Microfiber just cannot be expected to be as durable as leather, and the Force3 Defender needs to have intact pads present so as to properly function.

Team Wendy’s Zorbium isn’t the answer... an ideal answer is actually much lower tech. High-resistance foam cores, with a layer of sizing foam for some fit and comfort, clad in microfiber. The springs on the mask frame are doing all the work.

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7 hours ago, MadMax said:

Not necessary. I wouldn’t put the burden on Team Wendys itself, considering they have enough to do on fulfilling government and SAR contracts, and have them disturb their production of standard pads.

What would be more desirable is for Force3 to make mircofiber-encased pads, primarily for us (umpires), that we can opt for instead of leather. The leather pads were made primarily for catchers, because what do catchers do with their masks, folks? Yup, toss / knock them on the ground! Microfiber just cannot be expected to be as durable as leather, and the Force3 Defender needs to have intact pads present so as to properly function.

Team Wendy’s Zorbium isn’t the answer... an ideal answer is actually much lower tech. High-resistance foam cores, with a layer of sizing foam for some fit and comfort, clad in microfiber. The springs on the mask frame are doing all the work.

Agreed. I would even be happy with their standard padding but with a microfiber wrapping. 

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