Need help calling curve balls

[mac266]

This site has been great for this new guy.  You guys have steered me quite a bit.  The good news is, both of the leagues for which I am umpiring have already pulled me up a few levels.  I'm still covering some of the 8U -12U games, because they need umpires, but I've been pulled up to as high as 15U, which they usually don't do until an umpire's second or third year.

But here is my next question:  I'm having a hard time calling curveballs that move to the outside corner.  At the lower levels no one had a curveball.  But I worked a 15U game last week and got surprised by the first one.  I'm set up in the slot like I'm supposed to be, tracking only with my eyes, not moving my head, etc.  But I'm not confident on the curveballs that move to the outside.  For whatever reason, they psyche me out and I'm just not certain of them.  If they are close, I call the strike, even if the catcher makes the grab a little outside.  I figure by the time it gets to the catcher's glove a little outside, it probably passed across the plate at some point.  

But I'm simply not certain.

What techniques do you guys recommend to get them right?  Is it just a matter of getting more time behind the plate and seeing more of them?

 

[maven]

The single most important thing: timing. Slow down: I've never seen you call pitches, but more than 99% of newer umpires call pitches too fast. 

Slowing down will allow your brain time to process all info sent by your senses. Track the pitch all the way into the mitt: where the mitt is when F2 catches it is crucial info for calling breaking pitches (eventually you'll see more sliders too). Stay down in your stance until your brain is done: when you get in that habit, you'll make fewer mistakes and your confidence will grow.

And, to repeat advice I've given in another one of your threads: seek professional (not MLB/MiLB, but FED/NCAA) instruction. Internet umpires can't help you much with your positioning, even from photos or video (which gets flattened out).

[Senor Azul]

Here’s a link to a page titled Working the Plate at the website umpirebible.com—

https://www.umpirebible.com/index.php/mechanics/working-the-plate

On the page you will find links to a couple of very helpful articles about working the plate—one by Peter Osborne and the other by Carl Childress. Here’s a taste of what is written there—

“Both Osborne and Childress note that the weak spot (the main deficiency) of the slot position is difficulty calling the low-and-away pitch. In the slot position, your eye is at or near the top-inside corner of the strike zone. This makes low and away the farthest point from the eye.”

And something that completely supports what Mr. maven has already told you—

"Calling breaking pitches is most challenging of all, particularly if your timing is too quick. On breaking pitches you have to be very attentive. A high breaking ball could "stick" the catcher's glove right at his chest, but still have come over the top of the zone. Same with cutters and sliders that move in and out. A ball can break sideways into or out of the zone at the last moment. You must be diligent on these. Most important is seeing the pitch all the way to the catcher's glove, resisting the temptation to call the pitch too quickly.

"Of course, you tend to see pitches like these at higher levels – generally 14 and older – which is a level that, if you're a new umpire, you shouldn't be working yet. Instead, you can cut your teeth on the younger kids who pitch lollipop floaters that aren't really breaking balls, and yet cross the plate in much the same way. Rather than breaking, they're arcing across the plate, and these require the same attention as true breaking balls. These, again, you learn to see. And also demand good timing."

[mac266]

2 hours ago, maven said:

The single most important thing: timing. Slow down: I've never seen you call pitches, but more than 99% of newer umpires call pitches too fast. 

Slowing down will allow your brain time to process all info sent by your senses. Track the pitch all the way into the mitt: where the mitt is when F2 catches it is crucial info for calling breaking pitches (eventually you'll see more sliders too). Stay down in your stance until your brain is done: when you get in that habit, you'll make fewer mistakes and your confidence will grow.

And, to repeat advice I've given in another one of your threads: seek professional (not MLB/MiLB, but FED/NCAA) instruction. Internet umpires can't help you much with your positioning, even from photos or video (which gets flattened out).

Yes, I'm definitely planning to attend clinics, if and when they get going again, especially because I would eventually like to umpire in NCAA.  I've looked on the internet and pretty much nothing is happening right now.  

[kylehutson]

1) @maven is right about timing. It took me several years before felt like I didn't miss any because of my timing.

2)

3 hours ago, mac266 said:

  If they are close, I call the strike, even if the catcher makes the grab a little outside.

Yes, do that. Nobody like a postage-stamp zone. The first batter or two that gets one called might grumble. And then what will happen? They'll start swinging. And swinging bats = better baseball game.

3) 

3 hours ago, mac266 said:

This site has been great for this new guy.  You guys have steered me quite a bit.

Agreed 100%. I joined this site when I first started working high school JV ball, and I'm now working JuCo and NAIA ball - I think that was 7 years ago? I credit a lot of that to this site and the learning that happens here. The other piece of that is good clinics. I'm not sure where you are physically located, but if you can make it http://midamericanumpireclinic.com/ in Springfield MO is excellent and is still planned to be held the 2nd weekend in September.

[mac266]

3 minutes ago, kylehutson said:

The other piece of that is good clinics. I'm not sure where you are physically located, but if you can make it http://midamericanumpireclinic.com/ in Springfield MO is excellent and is still planned to be held the 2nd weekend in September.

I'm in Colorado.  Unfortunately, next month I begin my third master's degree program (yes, I already have two, and yes, having multiple graduate degrees is normal for my level in the military, and yes, I've convinced my employer to pay for it, so why not?).  I originally grew up in Iowa, so Missouri isn't too far from home.  But I'll have to find one that happens during the summer when my classes aren't meeting.

[wolfe_man]

Excellent advice already given, but I find staying locked in and keeping my head still until the ball is fully received by the catcher helps me to stay on the pitch and avoid missing those outside corner ones.   I agree with others that the outside pitch, especially that outside low pitch, is the hardest to see and call consistently.  Depending on the quality of the catcher, that pitch can look really good and easily called for a strike - or - really far outside. 

A good umpire has to learn how to call the pitch regardless of where the catcher sits, how much he moves, how well he receives the pitch, etc.  The good umpire learns to determine the correct zone with or without the assistance of the catcher.  A good catcher may help you call that outside strike easier, but we have to learn to call it even if we get no assistance.  This can be a challenge when the catcher sets up inside and the pitcher crosses him up and hits the outside corner instead!

I'm in year 4 or 5 at this now and I still work hard on my timing (slow down, make sure you saw it, then call it) and staying locked until everything has happened (never anticipate!) so I don't get caught off-guard.

Oh, and all of this gets easier with time, year 2 and 3 had me at times thinking it wasn't worth the trouble due to my frustrations and disappointments at not being as good as I wanted to be out there.   Learn something each game, implement it and try harder the next time and you'll keep growing.  Stay hungry and don't forget to enjoy the kids and the game!

Best of luck!

[Replacematt]

If you're not already, take a few pitches every time a new arm comes in. It'll help you avoid surprises and get a feel for his movement. At the levels you're working, this next part may not be beneficial, but I'll ask the catcher what the guy has and what he likes, especially as his out pitch. Surprise is an umpire's worst enemy.

[The Man in Blue]

2 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

A good umpire has to learn how to call the pitch regardless of where the catcher sits, how much he moves, how well he receives the pitch, etc.  The good umpire learns to determine the correct zone with or without the assistance of the catcher.  A good catcher may help you call that outside strike easier, but we have to learn to call it even if we get no assistance.  This can be a challenge when the catcher sets up inside and the pitcher crosses him up and hits the outside corner instead!

 

I really like to see a comment like this.  I think too many new (and old!) umpires hear "track the pitch to the catcher's mitt" and mistakenly get reliant on how/where the catcher catches the ball.

I am overstating if I say I don't pay any attention to a catcher, but I have worked hard over the years to make sure I am making my judgment over the plate.  More than once I have had a coach try to tell me the catcher "is making you look bad".  My response is always "I'm not the one moving the ball around after the catch, so I don't think it's me that is looking for a call that isn't there."

[Biscuit]

Relax. 

What I'm about to say is gonna be controversial. Don't worry so much about keeping your head still. Your focus should be on watching the ball, not how much your head (doesn't) move. Another controversial statement, don't worry about timing. If you're tracking is good, your timing will be good.

Now I need the qualify these statements. Both are based on the assumption of a few fundamentals being down.

First, you must have a good stance and set up. You should be able to see the entire strike zone with both eyes without moving your head. This may mean you aren't square to the pitcher  that's fine. If the ball is in the strike zone, you won't move your head, and you'll track with your eyes only. If the ball is way out of the zone, your head may move a little as you try to track the ball all the way. A great test of if you're actually tracking the ball is what happens when the ball is hit. Your head should move with the ba as it comes off the bat. If you watch MLB guys, their head will automatically move with the ball. This is a result of good tracking. 

Second, you have to understand when you should be making a decision. Good tracking means you follow the ball all the way, which then allows you to make a decision. You could have the best tracking in the world, but if you make your decision too early, it doesn't matter. This is where relaxing comes in. Set up correctly, watch it all the way in, make a decision. Boom, you'll never miss a call again*

 

*I cannot be held liable for any missed calls you till make. 

[Kevin_K]

A mechanic that I use to improve my view of the zone has to do with head angle vs eye angle.

Usually, umpires are taught to have their head facing F1 with their chin relatively parallel to the ground. When F1 starts his windup, we are taught to pick the ball up as soon as possible, tracking it all the way into F2's glove using only our eyes. In this scenario, when the pitch starts, umpires have their full field of vision. As the pitch travels towards HP, an umpire's field of vision becomes limited because his field of view starts to become narrower because of the manner in which human eye sockets are designed. Also consider that the field of view is limited by one's nose, which is more problematic for some than others due to the variations in nasal design.

I was offered another way to track pitches that seems to work much better for me.

Instead of having my chin parallel to the ground, I dip my chin slightly, so the natural setting of my eyes is about 3-5 feet in front of HP when I settle in for the pitch. I then raise my eyes to the level of the pitcher and as the pitch enters and passes through the zone my eyes are not straining to look down, rather they are at their natural setting and I get to use my entire field of view at the most critical juncture of each pitch.

It took some getting used to, but I find much greater consistency on the money pitches that F1 needs and DHC want. It especially helps me because I am left eye dominant and there are a lot more right handed batters than left handed.

[umpstu]

10 hours ago, mac266 said:

I'm in Colorado.  Unfortunately, next month I begin my third master's degree program (yes, I already have two, and yes, having multiple graduate degrees is normal for my level in the military, and yes, I've convinced my employer to pay for it, so why not?).  I originally grew up in Iowa, so Missouri isn't too far from home.  But I'll have to find one that happens during the summer when my classes aren't meeting.

This is an old flyer but they hold a clinic every year and Jim Paronto is a wealth of umpire knowledge.   https://aso.arbitersports.com/Groups/105775/Library/files/RMACClinic2017-Hatfield-finalII.pdf

[The Man in Blue]

2 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

A mechanic that I use to improve my view of the zone has to do with head angle vs eye angle.

Usually, umpires are taught to have their head facing F1 with their chin relatively parallel to the ground. When F1 starts his windup, we are taught to pick the ball up as soon as possible, tracking it all the way into F2's glove using only our eyes. In this scenario, when the pitch starts, umpires have their full field of vision. As the pitch travels towards HP, an umpire's field of vision becomes limited because his field of view starts to become narrower because of the manner in which human eye sockets are designed. Also consider that the field of view is limited by one's nose, which is more problematic for some than others due to the variations in nasal design.

I was offered another way to track pitches that seems to work much better for me.

Instead of having my chin parallel to the ground, I dip my chin slightly, so the natural setting of my eyes is about 3-5 feet in front of HP when I settle in for the pitch. I then raise my eyes to the level of the pitcher and as the pitch enters and passes through the zone my eyes are not straining to look down, rather they are at their natural setting and I get to use my entire field of view at the most critical juncture of each pitch.

It took some getting used to, but I find much greater consistency on the money pitches that F1 needs and DHC want. It especially helps me because I am left eye dominant and there are a lot more right handed batters than left handed.

Interesting ... I was always taught “nose on the ball” with slight head movement to track.

I agree with your angle approach though.  I don’t “face” the pitcher as that is not where I will need to be looking at the crucial moment.

[kylehutson]

3 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

A mechanic that I use to improve my view of the zone has to do with head angle vs eye angle.

I do something very similar.

Pre-pitch, as the pitcher is getting signs, etc., I get my feet to the proper position and stand up straight.

When a pitch seems imminent (comes set, or seems to begin his windup), I take a breath and hold it.

When the pitching motion starts, I squat into my stance, exhale my breath, and look at a spot a few feet in front of the mound.

As the pitch is delivered, I keep my breath held out, look up with my eyes, and track the pitch in. If it's far enough outside I have to move my head to track it, it's too far out, and a ball. I make a decision on the pitch, and *then* breathe in and make my call.

[BT_Blue]

1 hour ago, umpstu said:

This is an old flyer but they hold a clinic every year and Jim Paronto is a wealth of umpire knowledge.   https://aso.arbitersports.com/Groups/105775/Library/files/RMACClinic2017-Hatfield-finalII.pdf

Along with this, Dan Welke is in your area and might be a good guy to connect with on Facebook. I know he runs some clinics out of Colorado. I believe Colorado Springs. 

If you are willing to travel. There are some FABULOUS clinics headed by top NCAA guys in both Arizona and California. And since that is where you are looking to get to, I would hit those as soon as you can.

Of course, with Covid going around, they are all postponing until 2021. But it doesnt hurt to contact them now to get on the mailing list.

(Bonus comment... I enjoyed the humble brag on the 2 masters and going for a 3ed. Also, because I have said it yet... than you for your service @mac266.)

[mac266]

7 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

Along with this, Dan Welke is in your area and might be a good guy to connect with on Facebook. I know he runs some clinics out of Colorado. I believe Colorado Springs. 

If you are willing to travel. There are some FABULOUS clinics headed by top NCAA guys in both Arizona and California. And since that is where you are looking to get to, I would hit those as soon as you can.

Of course, with Covid going around, they are all postponing until 2021. But it doesnt hurt to contact them now to get on the mailing list.

(Bonus comment... I enjoyed the humble brag on the 2 masters and going for a 3ed. Also, because I have said it yet... than you for your service @mac266.)

Thank you...that is very, VERY close to me. 

As to the multiple graduate degrees, I'm actually a little BEHIND the average for my rank.  The third one will put me on par, and I'm trying very hard to make the next rank before I retire. 

[Thunderheads]

11 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

A mechanic that I use to improve my view of the zone has to do with head angle vs eye angle.

Usually, umpires are taught to have their head facing F1 with their chin relatively parallel to the ground. When F1 starts his windup, we are taught to pick the ball up as soon as possible, tracking it all the way into F2's glove using only our eyes. In this scenario, when the pitch starts, umpires have their full field of vision. As the pitch travels towards HP, an umpire's field of vision becomes limited because his field of view starts to become narrower because of the manner in which human eye sockets are designed. Also consider that the field of view is limited by one's nose, which is more problematic for some than others due to the variations in nasal design.

I was offered another way to track pitches that seems to work much better for me.

Instead of having my chin parallel to the ground, I dip my chin slightly, so the natural setting of my eyes is about 3-5 feet in front of HP when I settle in for the pitch. I then raise my eyes to the level of the pitcher and as the pitch enters and passes through the zone my eyes are not straining to look down, rather they are at their natural setting and I get to use my entire field of view at the most critical juncture of each pitch.

It took some getting used to, but I find much greater consistency on the money pitches that F1 needs and DHC want. It especially helps me because I am left eye dominant and there are a lot more right handed batters than left handed.

ALL the tips so far are spot on (IMHO)

To add on to @Kevin_K's comments ........ I was also shown that you can direct your nose to the side of the pitcher, then use your eyes to watch his release.  For example .... get set, get your eyes on the pitcher (right handed batter example) ...then move just your nose toward the 2nd baseman KEEPING YOUR EYES on the pitcher.  Now when you follow the pitch into the mitt with your eyes, .... they will be at a more natural position when focusing on the ball into the mitt instead of straining.  Same concept as Kevin's but sideways!     It feels a little strange at first, but I'm so used to it now, it comes natural.   NOW, ...when I hit the field next, ...I'll also use Kevin's idea!

Oh, ...and one more thing about timing:  @Biscuit is also correct, and not really so controversial.  If you're tracking well, your timing will be good!   BUT ... BUT .....  As you learn and you get better you need to understand how to slow down. Deep breaths and slow WAYYY DOWN!   Blink your eyes slowly along w/ deep breaths during warm up pitches (and as others have said, make sure you're watching warm up pitches from your normal location behind the catcher, not off to the side... SEE pitches before you put the ball in play).   The more you do it, the easier it will become.    Also, seeing a curve ball on the outside corner is assisted by PROPER HEAD HEIGHT as well.  Make sure your head level isn't too low.  That is a sure way to NOT see a curve on the outside corner at the knees  

On last comment on timing... this is a photo of me a couple years ago at the state finals.   Notice what I'm doing, and what the catcher is doing? s.....l......o......w......d......o......w.......n!

 

[Birdieseeker]

Thunderheads, we teach pretty much the same thing you’re talking about in my area, with 1 slight difference. We teach getting your nose pretty much where your partner would be in the B in a 2-man game, then moving your eyes to the pitcher without moving your head. It puts your eyes looking straight down at the zone as the pitch crosses the plate. Less straining to see the pitch on the outer corner and no head movement needed. Same theory just a different order in the set up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mac266]

On 7/21/2020 at 10:56 PM, BT_Blue said:

Along with this, Dan Welke is in your area and might be a good guy to connect with on Facebook. I know he runs some clinics out of Colorado. I believe Colorado Springs.

I'm not on Facebook, but I googled his name and found a news article where a Samsung satellite had crashed in his yard (same name, anyway, and in Colorado Springs).  Do you know how to reach him or does he have a web site for his clinics?

 

[Replacematt]

5 hours ago, mac266 said:

I'm not on Facebook, but I googled his name and found a news article where a Samsung satellite had crashed in his yard (same name, anyway, and in Colorado Springs).  Do you know how to reach him or does he have a web site for his clinics?

 

I'll PM you his info in a few minutes. 

[Aging_Arbiter]

Try umpiring a wiffle ball game!   Now THAT's a curve ball.   Then..........when you get back to real baseball, it won't be near as difficult!

 

[lawump]

On 7/21/2020 at 8:45 AM, mac266 said:

For whatever reason, they psyche me out and I'm just not certain of them. 

You're already addressing your problem of being psyched out.  You said that you are calling the close ones "strikes".  Good for you.

When that first "nut-cutter" of a curve ball is pitched in the game (a pitch that could be called either a "strike" or a "ball" without it constituting a "gross miss" by the umpire),  call it a strike.  Then, stay consistent with it.  

For the next few weeks, months, years (whatever it takes until you are at a point where you are no longer "psyche(d)... out" about breaking balls) make a promise to yourself that you are going to call the first "nut-cutter" breaking pitch in every game a "strike"...no matter what.  

When you call the first "nut-cutter" pitch a strike, it will be that much easier to call the second "nut-cutter" a strike.  The third will be even easier.  And so on.  Before you know it, you will have the game in a defensive flow.  When you have the game in a defensive flow, you will quickly become relaxed and able to just focus on umpiring (instead of playing mind games with yourself about being psyched out).  

This is the number one piece of advice I give to any umpire (new or veteran) who ask me for advice on how to deal with nerves (for instance, before working a "big game").  I tell them: make a promise to yourself that you are going to call the first "nut-cutter" pitch of the game a "strike".  That will tell everyone in the dugouts that borderline pitches will be strikes.  That gets the game in a defensive flow.  When the game is in a defensive flow, the batters are swinging and you have few deep counts.  Game personnel have no time to argue or complain because the game is moving at good clip.  You then start to relax and are able to focus on all of your mechanics...which makes you even better as the game progresses.  Before you know it, you realize this SH*# is even fun, sometimes.

[Replacematt]

42 minutes ago, lawump said:

You're already addressing your problem of being psyched out.  You said that you are calling the close ones "strikes".  Good for you.

When that first "nut-cutter" of a curve ball is pitched in the game (a pitch that could be called either a "strike" or a "ball" without it constituting a "gross miss" by the umpire),  call it a strike.  Then, stay consistent with it.  

For the next few weeks, months, years (whatever it takes until you are at a point where you are no longer "psyche(d)... out" about breaking balls) make a promise to yourself that you are going to call the first "nut-cutter" breaking pitch in every game a "strike"...no matter what.  

When you call the first "nut-cutter" pitch a strike, it will be that much easier to call the second "nut-cutter" a strike.  The third will be even easier.  And so on.  Before you know it, you will have the game in a defensive flow.  When you have the game in a defensive flow, you will quickly become relaxed and able to just focus on umpiring (instead of playing mind games with yourself about being psyched out).  

This is the number one piece of advice I give to any umpire (new or veteran) who ask me for advice on how to deal with nerves (for instance, before working a "big game").  I tell them: make a promise to yourself that you are going to call the first "nut-cutter" pitch of the game a "strike".  That will tell everyone in the dugouts that borderline pitches will be strikes.  That gets the game in a defensive flow.  When the game is in a defensive flow, the batters are swinging and you have few deep counts.  Game personnel have no time to argue or complain because the game is moving at good clip.  You then start to relax and are able to focus on all of your mechanics...which makes you even better as the game progresses.  Before you know it, you realize this SH*# is even fun, sometimes.

@mac266, I use this philosophy and this is the end result (from one of my games last week, a summer league with college players from all divisions and some former professionals.) This game lasted 2:10. I got the high strike. I got the low strike. They hit the ball, they caught the ball (mostly.)

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

Former catcher here...I always enjoyed playing in games with plate umpires who engaged me. And now, that's the kind of umpire I try to be. I'm not meeting them out there with a drink cart but, I'll ask their names, what their guys on the bump like to throw, their out pitch, etc. If they make a key stop especially on a pitch up where they clearly got crossed up and it almost went in my face, I will quietly thank them or quietly tell them "nice play" on a difficult pop up. I look out for them, they look out for me...mostly.

My #1 piece of advice for having good rapport with catchers is...When they OVERLY frame pitches, I will quietly tell them to stick the pitch. When a catcher has to pull pitches back into the frame they are telling everyone watching (most importantly me!) that they didn't think it was a strike either!

Of course, there are sticks...and then there's Travis D'Arnaud doing...this: https://www.catching-101.com/the-most-famous-frame-of-all-time/

~Dog

[matt29]

All great advice. If you're calling pitches that are close, strikes, stick with it. Early on in my umpiring career, I worked with a former DI guy (he's in his late 60s so he no longer does DI) and was surprised by how aggressive he was with his zone (read - big zone). We had to finish up a suspended game's final two innings before the second game of the series. He and I were talking between games and he asked me what I thought of his zone. I told him I was surprised it was so big since I expected a coffee can zone. He explained that he is aggressive in the first inning to see what he can get away with. He tightens the zone based on feedback and then that's the zone for the rest of the game. Long story short - be aggressive with strikes, but be consistent. As you progress to higher levels of ball, the amount of "widening" you can do on the corners decreases, but you can always be aggressive with your zone. 

As far as calling breaking pitches - the following generalities worked for me when I was trying to establish consistency with breaking balls. Track the pitch all the way to the glove. Watch the catch of the pitch and wait for the catcher to stop moving the glove - this will help with timing. Then, and only then, make your decision and make your call. For breaking pitches that are dropping - If the catcher catches it at the top of the zone - the pitch was too high crossing the plate. If he catches it a little lower that I'd accept on a fastball - the breaking pitch was high enough when it crossed the plate. Corners are the same - caught it just off the side of the plate away from the batter- it's a strike. Caught on the edge of the plate nearest a batter - ball because it was inside when it crossed (this assumes batter is facing a pitcher in a R/R of L/L match up - reverse the advice on the corners for L/R match-ups). The amount of break and drop in the pitch will dictate how low or off the plate is reasonable and acceptable. 

Like others have said, attend a local clinic or seek out more experienced umpires and get feedback, correction, and coaching. I broke into the college game by attending a clinic and I made connections with CWS guys. I work five or six D1 preseason games each year where the CWS guys either observe me, or work the game with me. Their observations are invaluable and have contributed to my progress. Good luck as you move forward!