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New All-Star Gear

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5 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

LOL, Steve, .......I've never noticed! :D   Are you referring to the shine, or the 'bump' .... the metal t-hooks aren't very large as opposed to the plastic clips

The bump. The t-hooks themselves are small, but they don't lay flat. They protrude out and show through the shirt.

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24 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

The bump. The t-hooks themselves are small, but they don't lay flat. They protrude out and show through the shirt.

Hmmm..... never noticed ....here's a shot of our crew, 3 of the 4 man crew prior to the 2018 state semi& finals (we work for the same assignor) .... the clips don't show here...

image.png

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Anyways....................................

I'm going to wait until I see the final product, and someone I trust has a good review of it. Then I'll make the decision on whether I'll plunk down my dough. Saving a few bucks on the unknown is no incentive for me. I have an S7 that fits me great, so it will have to be a bit better than that, per the reviews. I'm hopeful it will. 

I, too, was solicited my input into this rig several years ago, and was hoping we'd see carbon fiber. But I do get why it would be hard to do. 

 

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Guys, the SR buckles (side-release) were located on the prototype for two reasons:

  1. It’s a primary machined stitch at that point on the plastic carapace plate (where the SR buckle is in the photo). It is inherently strong... stronger than trying to work out the minutiae of locating the buckle and strap on the fringe of the unit, and having to include a reinforcing stitch there... on a prototype.
  2. By locating the SR buckles closer to the centerline, it increases the leverage exerted by the harness, and you achieve a snug, conforming, wraparound fit on a mannequin or (slim) model. When your model or template is a slim, trim 6’1”, 170 lb. twentysomething, you don’t want your new, state-of-art body armor to be hanging on it like a shop apron. If you use a larger, more robust model, then all your measurements have to increase, too. Think “strap length”, on the harness in this case. If you have longer straps on the harness, and present the prototype for review to the bean-counters at the company, they’ll invariably question, “Why is there so much excess strap? Do you not realize that we’re paying 25 cents per foot of strap, and you’re showing us 3 feet of excess strap (total)? And, you’re projecting 100,000 units made in the next year?” Prototypes are tough to present.

I fully trust that a lot of the issues we keep needling out will be addressed and remedied by the time that it debuts.

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11 minutes ago, kylejt said:

Y'all know we're on the Ump-Attire page, right? 

 

What does this question mean?

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It seems like this might be best on the Equipment Page, instead of UA. And I might the most guilty of taking this off the rails, so I'll delete my comments that helped derail this. 

 

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5 minutes ago, kylejt said:

I'll delete my comments that helped derail this

Not necessary. They’re relevant. And I’m sure a mod ( @Thunderheads ? @LMSANS ? ) can lift this entire thread up and transplant it to Equipment board. 

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On 7/24/2020 at 2:16 PM, grayhawk said:

@JimKirk, do you have your hands on one of these yet? I saw that another online retailer is doing pre-orders. Would love to see one of your 2 minute reviews on this product!

Thanks for the question. My answer has been posted here:

https://umpire-empire.com/topic/74508-new-all-star-gear/?do=findComment&comment=384073

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50 minutes ago, TheRockawayKid said:

I believe the fine print on the Out West site says that this is a sale thing and can't be refunded.

I read the entirety of “the fine print” and these products are not on clearance or end-of-line sale, thus, are still eligible for returns, refunds, and exchanges as normal procedure.

The reasons behind a pre-sale like this, for these sorts of products-in-beta, are three-fold:

  1. To create and capture attention from the market. We (umpires) are a really tough market to nail down, because while we’re frugal, we’re also incredibly lazy, and will try to buy everything in one transaction, at one time, and we don’t buy again for years. We don’t buy new items every season; we typically squeeze out every bit of life from an umpiring item, and then typically buy replacements from the same sources we purchased from before. Then, we invariably post on social media “Neener neener neener, I gots my new ____________ from so-and-so! Ain’t it awesome?! Aren’t you jealous of me?!”
  2. It’s a crude form of crowdfunding. By taking in pre-orders, you have a cash flow that you can generate interest with. Even if you need to refund every order, you’ve still generated interest on the possession and utilization of those funds for the X amount of time you’ve had it. And, you’re betting on the numbers that you’ll only have to return / refund 10-20% of the purchases.
  3. The resale industry is a competitive arena. If All-Star is going to be producing 6,000 units, in 3 batches of 2,000, you don’t want to be at the bottom of the list, in Batch 2, for receiving your allotment of units dispersed from All-Star. If you have pre-orders, you have “guaranteed” numbers that you can leverage with All-Star to push you towards the top of the dispersement list, and get a leg up on Item #1.
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I read the entirety of “the fine print” and these products are not on clearance or end-of-line sale, thus, are still eligible for returns, refunds, and exchanges as normal procedure.
The reasons behind a pre-sale like this, for these sorts of products-in-beta, are three-fold:
  1. To create and capture attention from the market. We (umpires) are a really tough market to nail down, because while we’re frugal, we’re also incredibly lazy, and will try to buy everything in one transaction, at one time, and we don’t buy again for years. We don’t buy new items every season; we typically squeeze out every bit of life from an umpiring item, and then typically buy replacements from the same sources we purchased from before. Then, we invariably post on social media “Neener neener neener, I gots my new ____________ from so-and-so! Ain’t it awesome?! Aren’t you jealous of me?!”
  2. It’s a crude form of crowdfunding. By taking in pre-orders, you have a cash flow that you can generate interest with. Even if you need to refund every order, you’ve still generated interest on the possession and utilization of those funds for the X amount of time you’ve had it. And, you’re betting on the numbers that you’ll only have to return / refund 10-20% of the purchases.
  3. The resale industry is a competitive arena. If All-Star is going to be producing 6,000 units, in 3 batches of 2,000, you don’t want to be at the bottom of the list, in Batch 2, for receiving your allotment of units dispersed from All-Star. If you have pre-orders, you have “guaranteed” numbers that you can leverage with All-Star to push you towards the top of the dispersement list, and get a leg up on Item #1.
True, unless of course, like we have learned, All-Star said, "don't to do that" ...... but they did anyhow

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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6 hours ago, kylejt said:

Anyways....................................

I'm going to wait until I see the final product, and someone I trust has a good review of it. Then I'll make the decision on whether I'll plunk down my dough. Saving a few bucks on the unknown is no incentive for me. I have an S7 that fits me great, so it will have to be a bit better than that, per the reviews. I'm hopeful it will. 

I, too, was solicited my input into this rig several years ago, and was hoping we'd see carbon fiber. But I do get why it would be hard to do. 

 

One thing we have to remember @kylejt. Companies put out products they think will SELL, and do not necessarily put out products that are actual improvements over previous models. The S7 might be a superior rig in every way for all we know.

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43 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Companies put out products they think will SELL, and do not necessarily put out products that are actual improvements over previous models.

You just explained Wilson’s excuse justification for the past 20 years of (in)activity in their Umpire product line.

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1 minute ago, MadMax said:

You just explained Wilson’s excuse justification for the past 20 years of (in)activity in their Umpire product line.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing. If you can't make money, then there is no point. It would be nice if making money and improving products coincided. But that isn't always the case. I think the S7 is the best rig out there, so any improvement is likely to be marginal anyway.

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14 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

when they did the original System 7 CP, ...they asked people from THIS forum to participate,.... lots of fun!   Looking forward to the finished piece!

I think I remember that. Part of me is hoping they will include those little wings as the bottom of the S7 that gives that little extra rib coverage. Someone mentioned them previously. But i think that was really innovative. 

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8 hours ago, TheRockawayKid said:

I believe the fine print on the Out West site says that this is a sale thing and can't be refunded. So it's 125, and if you don't like it you're out 125. 

 

6 hours ago, MadMax said:

I read the entirety of “the fine print” and these products are not on clearance or end-of-line sale, thus, are still eligible for returns, refunds, and exchanges as normal procedure.

The reasons behind a pre-sale like this, for these sorts of products-in-beta, are three-fold:

  1. To create and capture attention from the market. We (umpires) are a really tough market to nail down, because while we’re frugal, we’re also incredibly lazy, and will try to buy everything in one transaction, at one time, and we don’t buy again for years. We don’t buy new items every season; we typically squeeze out every bit of life from an umpiring item, and then typically buy replacements from the same sources we purchased from before. Then, we invariably post on social media “Neener neener neener, I gots my new ____________ from so-and-so! Ain’t it awesome?! Aren’t you jealous of me?!”
  2. It’s a crude form of crowdfunding. By taking in pre-orders, you have a cash flow that you can generate interest with. Even if you need to refund every order, you’ve still generated interest on the possession and utilization of those funds for the X amount of time you’ve had it. And, you’re betting on the numbers that you’ll only have to return / refund 10-20% of the purchases.
  3. The resale industry is a competitive arena. If All-Star is going to be producing 6,000 units, in 3 batches of 2,000, you don’t want to be at the bottom of the list, in Batch 2, for receiving your allotment of units dispersed from All-Star. If you have pre-orders, you have “guaranteed” numbers that you can leverage with All-Star to push you towards the top of the dispersement list, and get a leg up on Item #1.

It would also go against the statements made by OWSO on two separate videos regarding the Cobalt. Would be pretty crappy business if they did that. 

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On 7/27/2020 at 4:52 PM, wolfe_man said:

Touché!

And thank you for providing full disclosure.

I am disappointed in what Outwest is doing. I expected better from them. I believe in second chances, but now I’m seeing a pattern that troubles me.

I went back and removed all of my comments from this topic as I do not want to appear to be endorsing this type of behavior.

I will refrain from further comment on this subject.

I am a fan of their "by officials for officials" mantra. But I have noticed the same things you have as well. 

I look forward to the finished product. And who know... this COULD replace my beloved All American. 

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10 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

I am a fan of their "by officials for officials" mantra. But I have noticed the same things you have as well. 

I look forward to the finished product. And who know... this COULD replace my beloved All American. 

If it does I would love to buy your All American.  :wave:

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13 hours ago, spiffdawg7 said:

If it does I would love to buy your All American.  :wave:

I would have to get one first. Then I would actually have to get on the ballfield... which who knows if that will happen before next April.

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On 7/27/2020 at 6:52 PM, wolfe_man said:

Touché!

And thank you for providing full disclosure.

I am disappointed in what Outwest is doing. I expected better from them. I believe in second chances, but now I’m seeing a pattern that troubles me.

I went back and removed all of my comments from this topic as I do not want to appear to be endorsing this type of behavior.

I will refrain from further comment on this subject.

I also am disappointed with Outwest due to lack of customer service and accountability. I had a problem back when they did the “sale” on plate coats for Black Friday. I ordered one and when I finally got it in late January, the size was way off so I emailed, giving him a chance to make it right.. I got a response basically sweeping aside my concerns and ending the conversation, so I left a review that I didn’t recommend them for others to buy from. He was quick to respond to that though, directly to my messenger, trying to bully me for leaving a bad recommendation/review.

I don’t trust them and will never do business with them again. I hope to show others their true colors and they are really just out to make another dollar, not the service aspect they try to present. Ump-attire is always my go to supplier and I trust them over any others! Thank you to @JimKirk and the rest of his crew that take care of all of us!

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On 7/31/2020 at 4:54 PM, StandupTriple said:

I also am disappointed with Outwest due to lack of customer service and accountability. I had a problem back when they did the “sale” on plate coats for Black Friday. I ordered one and when I finally got it in late January, the size was way off so I emailed, giving him a chance to make it right.. I got a response basically sweeping aside my concerns and ending the conversation, so I left a review that I didn’t recommend them for others to buy from. He was quick to respond to that though, directly to my messenger, trying to bully me for leaving a bad recommendation/review.

I don’t trust them and will never do business with them again. I hope to show others their true colors and they are really just out to make another dollar, not the service aspect they try to present. Ump-attire is always my go to supplier and I trust them over any others! Thank you to @JimKirk and the rest of his crew that take care of all of us!

How about integrity...I supplied them with products including adding their logos. CP Harness U-Bag Lineup Folders both sizes. One condition was they could not do any custom graphics...couple of months later I start seeing them all over the internet. Called them and they just said it was an emergency job then I showed him the email thread where his last comments was I will send you the logos. Never happened. Late paying the invoice too but they don't care. I cut them off over a phone call informing them thy broke the agreement. He started getting pissy with me and I told him he was done and no further products would be offered by me to them. 2 months later they knock off 3 products and publicly are saying screw UMPLIFE they do not have a patent and we can do what we want. That shows how they have no integrity or professionalism and completely sabotaged All Stars launch of a new product

One thing is fact...they did not meet anyone from All Star and you can see the only credible comments came from Jim Kirk of Ump-Attire.com who has been involved with this project since day 1

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Man has this topic derailed!! thought this topic was about the All-Star Cobalt CP? If I wanted to read  poor-mouthing about companies and individuals I’d get on Facebook. Can some of the admins clean this crap up? Thanks! 

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Good morning everyone ........

Let's keep this thread all about the new All-Star Cobalt Chest Protector, please.   What's gone on with other 'retailers' is irrelevant; it's out there, it's been discussed, ...let's drop that portion of it, and stick to being gear whores! :D :nod: 

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Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much else we can really talk about for these things until the official release. I heard that was some time this month. But who knows.

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