batter mistakenly leaves box

[Guest Douglas]

I enjoy your website, and frequently review your articles and the comments for rules clarifications. I ran into a unique situation this past weekend, and wanted to get your take on it because I do not find a rule that specifically addresses what happened. Here goes:

A batter on my team was at the plate during the middle of an at-bat. The count was 1-1, but the batter incorrectly thought that he had 2 strikes. The next pitch was thrown, which was a strike. The batter believed that he had struck out, jogged to the dugout, went inside, and put his bat up. This is occurring in real time, so while my batter was jogging to the dugout, I was asking the umpire what the count was and telling him that I thought there was only 2 strikes on the batter. Before responding to me to let me know what the count was, and without saying anything to my batter who the umpire is watching jog to the dugout, the umpire waits for him to walk inside the dugout and then calls the better out. The umpire said that once the batter went inside the dugout, even if the batter was incorrect about the count, he was out.

I played baseball through high school and 4 years of college. I've coached youth baseball now for over a decade. I understand that a runner, after reaching base, may give himself up by leaving the base and walking into the dugout; however, even if/when that unique situation has occurred in the past, if a mistake was made by either the player or the umpire, the umpire put the runner back on base. I have never seen an umpire call a batter out for mistakingly thinking that he had 3 strikes and had struck out during the middle of an at bat and, all the while, never saying anything to the batter as he jogged away or anything to me, the coach, as I was asking the umpire to tell me the correct count.

Help me out here. If you can point me to a rule, I would appreciate it.

[aaluck]

Ridiculous. Please tell us you are joking. What age group? What rule set...not that it matters?  Never heard of that.

Fed rules read: “i. on a dropped third strike, he gives up by entering the bench or dugout area, ”

Requires it be the third strike. Regardless you (ump) tell the kid "Hey that's only two, you still have one more, give it a ride."

[Jay R.]

That is terrible.

I umpired in a local Little League for six years and was really strict about batters getting to the plate, staying in the box, etc. I called several strikes on batters who were slow to take their position, for whatever reason (all backed by my UIC on review).

I would NEVER do what you describe above.

[maven]

Assuming that all the facts are as you say, it's difficult to find a charitable interpretation of the umpire's behavior. Batters at all levels forget the count periodically, and below a certain level they can't sneak a peek at the scoreboard to remind themselves. The proper response is to call the batter back to the plate (I don't allow them to violate the batter's box rule, which this batter seems to have done).

Umpires sometimes don't act in the best interest of the game. Your umpire might have been acting in good faith—might have thought there was a rule supporting his call. But unless your league has some local modification, being called out for entering the dugout after strike 2 is not a rule.

[ArchAngel72]

If it is LL the Umpire shall and can call strikes on a batter who leaves the box, but I would only do that with "majors"  ( 10-12 ) not the lower levels. 

I'll go dig up that rule.

 

However its not the same to me as a kid thinking he struck out and walking away.  If the umpire did not clarify it by saying out loud Strike 2  when the kid gave up his at bat and or calling time and clarifying it with the coach and the batter that seems like well going a bit overboard on the kid.  If its LL its a learning age.

 

I'm willing to bet there is not one umpire here on this page that has not ever lost the count or called strike 3 on strike 2 or something similar.

grr  sorry frustrating that the umpire you had was way too strict  IMHO..

Ok what I found

Quote

 

6.02 

(c) Local league Option After entering the batters box, the batter must remain in the box with at least one foot throughout the at bat.

( List of exceptions ) 

None apply to the OP

under section called "Penalty"

If a batter leaves the batters box or delays play and none of the exceptions apply, the umpire shall warn the batter. After one warning on the batter, the umpire shall call strike. Any number of strikes can be called on each batter. Minor/Major Division: No pitch has to be thrown, the ball is dead, and no runners may advance.  intermediate (50/70) Division/Junior/Senior" No pitch has to thrown and ball is live

Note The batter may return their position in the batters box and assume the new count at any time during the at-bat, unless such enforced penalty is the third strike.

 

 

So yeah the Ump over reacted and should have given a warning to begin with.. 

 

From what I recall being discussed about the rule, its something to speed up the game and keep it better in control.  I heard it was due to some of the overseas teams would come in and after EVERY pitch the batter would walk halfway to 3rd base coach and they would have a discussion about the next pitch.

I do get the rule but there is a way to handle these situations to me the Ump you had was to quick on the trigger..

 

 

[Senor Azul]

It’s difficult to point you to a rule since you did not tell us which rule set your game was played under. So, here are the rules I think would apply from three codes. In Little League there are mandatory play rules and an umpire cannot take that away by declaring a batter out except as listed in the RIM.

2019 LL rule 6.04 - A batter has legally completed a time at bat when he/she is put out or becomes a runner.

2019 LL rule 2.00 An AT-BAT, for the purposes of meeting the requirements of Mandatory Play (if applicable), is when a batter assumes the position of a batter with no count and is put out, called out by an umpire or reaches base. An at-bat for scorekeeping purposes is defined in the publication, “What’s the Score?

INSTRUCTOR’S COMMENTS:

➔ This rule defines an at-bat, for the purposes of Regulation IV (i), mandatory play, to include a batter being called out by an umpire for the use of an illegal bat or a violation of Rule 6.07, Batting Out of Turn

2019 OBR rule 5.04(c) Completing Time at Bat A batter has legally completed his time at bat when he is put out or becomes a runner.

2019 NFHS rule 2 SECTION 39 TIME AT BAT

Time at bat is the period beginning when a batter first enters the batter’s box and continuing until he is put out or becomes a runner…

2019 rule 2 SECTION 24 OUT: FORCE-OUT, PUTOUT, STRIKEOUT, TAG OUT, THROW-OUT

ART. 2 . . . A putout is the act of a fielder in retiring a batter or runner. For putouts credited to the catcher and to other fielders, see 9-5-2.

[Guest Douglas]

Thank you for your comments so far. I should have clarified that this was a USSSA tournament. It was the 11-year-old age group.

[Aging_Arbiter]

Still, it sounds like the umpire may be confusing application of the "abandonment", and possibly, rule sets.  My guess would be that since this is U11, the umpire was fairly new, and hasn't learned yet that there is a difference between umpiring with the rule book and umpiring by the rule book.

[wolfe_man]

11 minutes ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

Still, it sounds like the umpire may be confusing application of the "abandonment", and possibly, rule sets.  My guess would be that since this is U11, the umpire was fairly new, and hasn't learned yet that there is a difference between umpiring with the rule book and umpiring by the rule book.

That's a very good point.  And from my experience, many umpires doing LL have not had formal training or certification.  Many are 13-15 year old teenagers doing summer jobs until they can work a "real" job.