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Guest Brian S.

Catcher scored w/an Error

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Guest Brian S.

Game was 14U league game, high school rules. Bottom of 7th and 3-3 score. Runner advanced to third on passed ball. Next pitch hit ground in front of catcher and he could not handle with ordinary effort. Runner from third scores, game over. Scorer charges catcher w/error. Should that not be scored a WP and the reason for the runner scoring?

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21 minutes ago, Guest Brian S. said:

Game was 14U league game, high school rules. Bottom of 7th and 3-3 score. Runner advanced to third on passed ball. Next pitch hit ground in front of catcher and he could not handle with ordinary effort. Runner from third scores, game over. Scorer charges catcher w/error. Should that not be scored a WP and the reason for the runner scoring?

Should have been a passed ball or WP.   If it hit in front of the plate it has to be a WP. Otherwise it's scorer's judgement as to the effort needed.

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In general, it's impossible to assess judgment calls without quality and relevant video.

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No need to see any video if the pitch was as you describe it in the dirt because this situation is actually covered in the rule book. The applicable scorekeeping rules are found in rule 9 of the Official Baseball Rules (OBR) and high school rules 9-5 and 9-6-1.

2019 OBR rule 9.12(f) The Official Scorer shall not charge an error when a runner or runners advance as the result of a passed ball, a wild pitch or a balk.

2019 OBR Rule 9.13(a) The Official Scorer shall charge a pitcher with a wild pitch when a legally delivered ball is so high, so wide or so low that the catcher does not stop and control the ball by ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance. The Official Scorer shall charge a pitcher with a wild pitch when a legally delivered ball touches the ground or home plate before reaching the catcher and is not handled by the catcher, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance. When the third strike is a wild pitch, permitting the batter to reach first base, the Official Scorer shall score a strikeout and a wild pitch.

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That depends...it sounds like the scorekeeper is the pitcher's parent, and you are almost certain the catcher's father, and worried that that error has just screwed up his chances for playing at Stanford.

You're gonna have to see if you can start being scorekeeper, to join the long line of parent scorekeepers who actively pat their kids' stats.

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1 hour ago, Senor Azul said:

No need to see any video if the pitch was as you describe it in the dirt because this situation is actually covered in the rule book. The applicable scorekeeping rules are found in rule 9 of the Official Baseball Rules (OBR) and high school rules 9-5 and 9-6-1.

2019 OBR rule 9.12(f) The Official Scorer shall not charge an error when a runner or runners advance as the result of a passed ball, a wild pitch or a balk.

2019 OBR Rule 9.13(a) The Official Scorer shall charge a pitcher with a wild pitch when a legally delivered ball is so high, so wide or so low that the catcher does not stop and control the ball by ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance. The Official Scorer shall charge a pitcher with a wild pitch when a legally delivered ball touches the ground or home plate before reaching the catcher and is not handled by the catcher, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance. When the third strike is a wild pitch, permitting the batter to reach first base, the Official Scorer shall score a strikeout and a wild pitch.

HS rule says before reaching the plate.  Question says HS rules.

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2 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

HS rule says before reaching the plate.  Question says HS rules.

Well, if it hit the ground before reaching the plate, there's a relatively OK chance that it hit the ground before reaching the catcher.

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1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

Well, if it hit the ground before reaching the plate, there's a relatively OK chance that it hit the ground before reaching the catcher.

FED says WP if it hits before the plate. OBR if it hits before the catcher.   And it can hit before the catcher and not have hit before the plate. So it can be a WP in OBR but not in FED in that case. So what's the issue?

 

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Here is the actual rule from the 2019 FED baseball rule book that we are talking about (I have bolded the part that you have so completely misinterpreted)--

2019 NFHS rule 9-6 ART. 1 . . . A wild pitch shall be charged in the summary to the pitcher when a ball legally delivered to the batter is so high, or so low (including any pitch that touches the ground in front of home plate), or so far away from home plate that the catcher does not stop or control it with ordinary effort so that the batter-runner advances to first base or any runner advances a base. When the catcher enables a runner, other than the batter-runner, to advance by failing to control a pitch that he should have been able to control, it is not a wild pitch but a “passed ball.”

And here is what you posted about the rule, “FED says WP if it hits before the plate. OBR if it hits before the catcher. And it can hit before the catcher and not have hit before the plate. So it can be a WP in OBR but not in FED in that case. So what's the issue?”

The issue is that words matter. The idea that a list is not limited to the examples provided is inherent in the meaning of the word include. By definition, if we use the word include or including before a list, we are telling the reader that the list is not exhaustive. As an example, one might say "the letters of the alphabet include a, b, and c.” No one could argue that that suggests that a, b, and c are the only letters of the alphabet.

Here’s another example—the famous legal expression "including, but not limited to.” A simple including is all that is necessary. The word including doesn't suggest exclusivity, so the “not limited to” is superfluous, thus making the phrase a redundancy.

So that brings us back to the actual rule. You have misinterpreted it to mean something that it does not. A wild pitch is scored the same way under any rule set.

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That error on his record at 14 will destroy his chances of  getting that promotion to major league baseball from the team's AAA team.  

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Whoever downgraded   Beerguy55 and my messages just doesn't get it. Probably never coached and had to deal with certain parents.

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19 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

That error on his record at 14 will destroy his chances of  getting that promotion to major league baseball from the team's AAA team.  

I brought you both back up to zero again. But I really don't like any rating system on this question thread and wish the default would be chronological. If you go to -1 again your dealing with a zealot:)

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33 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

I brought you both back up to zero again. But I really don't like any rating system on this question thread and wish the default would be chronological. If you go to -1 again your dealing with a zealot:)

Agreed.  We don't have this "rating" on other sub-forums; it should be removed from this sub-forum

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1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

Whoever downgraded   Beerguy55 and my messages just doesn't get it. Probably never coached and had to deal with certain parents.

Exactly.  Just like little Johnny could never possibly let a third strike ago by...had to be a bad call...."that's terrible blue!"

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