Thrown ball over homerun fence

[Guest Chris]

I saw a minor league game where a base hit rolled to an outfielder in the bottom of the 9th. He thought the game was tied and the winning run had scored from 3rd, so he picked up the ball and threw it over the fence in fair territory to a fan. The batter rounded the bases and scored. Is that an automatic homerun?

 

[Guest Chris]

More to this, the game wasn't actually tied. The batting team was down one. Anyway, what's the rule if a fielder picks up a fair ball and throws it over the homerun fence?

[Ruben]

The standard rule for throwing a ball into dead ball territory (whether over the homerun fence, into the dugout, into the stands in foul ground, etc.), is an award of two bases for all runners from the time of throw.

So, if the batter had already touched 1st base when the ball was thrown, he'd be awarded 3rd base. If he hadn't yet reached first base, then he's awarded 2nd base.

 

 

[Replacematt]

4 minutes ago, Ruben said:

The standard rule for throwing a ball into dead ball territory (whether over the homerun fence, into the dugout, into the stands in foul ground, etc.), is an award of two bases for all runners from the time of throw.

So, if the batter had already touched 1st base when the ball was thrown, he'd be awarded 3rd base. If he hadn't yet reached first base, then he's awarded 2nd base.

 

 

In this case, yes...

However, there is not a standard rule for throwing the ball out of play. If a pitcher engaged with the rubber does it, it is one base from the time of the throw. On the first play by an infielder, it is two bases from the time of the pitch if not all runners have advanced a base at the time of the throw. On any play by an outfielder or a play by an infielder that does not fall into the category I just said, it is two bases from the time of the throw.

[Ruben]

25 minutes ago, Matt said:

In this case, yes...

However, there is not a standard rule for throwing the ball out of play. If a pitcher engaged with the rubber does it, it is one base from the time of the throw. On the first play by an infielder, it is two bases from the time of the pitch if not all runners have advanced a base at the time of the throw. On any play by an outfielder or a play by an infielder that does not fall into the category I just said, it is two bases from the time of the throw.

Yes, of course. I was thinking of this specific case. The others are as you've elaborated.

[Guest Chris]

In this particular play, the outfielder - thinking the game was over - jogged slowly towards the ball, picked it up, and tossed it over the fence. When they showed the home plate ump, he was pointing to home plate. I guess the batter had crossed 2nd by the time the fielder threw the ball away. I wasn't sure if he was signaling automatic home run or not. I don't think I've ever seen a ball thrown out of play in fair territory. I've of course seen balls bounce off outfielders and go over, but this was different. 

[Replacematt]

4 minutes ago, Guest Chris said:

In this particular play, the outfielder - thinking the game was over - jogged slowly towards the ball, picked it up, and tossed it over the fence. When they showed the home plate ump, he was pointing to home plate. I guess the batter had crossed 2nd by the time the fielder threw the ball away. I wasn't sure if he was signaling automatic home run or not. I don't think I've ever seen a ball thrown out of play in fair territory. I've of course seen balls bounce off outfielders and go over, but this was different. 

When it's a throw, it doesn't matter where it goes out of play (fair or foul;) the penalty is the same.

A fair ball deflected out of play in flight does have differing awards if the ball was deflected out of play over fair territory or over foul territory.

[maven]

7 hours ago, Guest Chris said:

I wasn't sure if he was signaling automatic home run or not.

There's no such thing as an automatic home run. In some cases, it's possible to have a 4-base award for an infraction by the defense, but umpires wouldn't refer to that as an "automatic" anything, not least because it will involve umpire judgment.

This instance is a 2-base award. The only question is, where was the runner when the ball left the fielder's hand? Apparently, the umpire ruled that 2B was the BR's last legally touched base at the time of the throw. So the 2-base award from there scored him.

[Guest PghUmp]

Addressing this, is there anything preventing this from “intentionally” being done? 

Consider this scenario: R1 is winning run. BR hits fly ball into deep right field. F9, seeing that R1 will score, intentionally throws ball out of play before R1 touches second base stopping R1 at third. 

[beerguy55]

8 hours ago, Guest Chris said:

I wasn't sure if he was signaling automatic home run or not.

 

He would be doing the traditional twirly-finger thing if it was an "automatic" home run - ie. a four base award for a fair batted ball going over the fence in flight

Pointing to home plate indicates he is awarding home based on where the batter/runner was when the ball left the outfielder's hand.

If the batted ball hit the outfielder, in flight, and carried over the fence, in flight, it would be a four base award (twirly finger)

If the ball is thrown out of play (anywhere), whether the outfielder caught it, or fielded a ground ball, it's a two base award Time of Throw. (point to awarded base)

If the ball, after hitting the ground, was deflected out of play by the outfielder (anywhere), it would usually be two bases time of pitch...unless it was determined the impetus of the force came from the fielder, and not the bat, then it would be time of deflection (eg. ball stopped or almost stopped and fielder slips and kicks ball out of play).

[maven]

44 minutes ago, Guest PghUmp said:

Addressing this, is there anything preventing this from “intentionally” being done? 

Consider this scenario: R1 is winning run. BR hits fly ball into deep right field. F9, seeing that R1 will score, intentionally throws ball out of play before R1 touches second base stopping R1 at third. 

I don't think your scenario is possible. If F9 gets the ball before R1 gets to 2B, he'll throw it to 3B and keep the runner at 2B. Throwing it away would allow R1 an extra base.

On a hit that would or might score R1, F9 can't get the ball before R1 is at 2B. 

To answer your question: no, intent is irrelevant to the award.

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, Guest PghUmp said:

Addressing this, is there anything preventing this from “intentionally” being done? 

Consider this scenario: R1 is winning run. BR hits fly ball into deep right field. F9, seeing that R1 will score, intentionally throws ball out of play before R1 touches second base stopping R1 at third. 

There is a weird (and never seen by me) case in FED where a fielder who intentionally throws the ball out of play gives the baserunner some rights (specifically, the right to return to "tag up" when the runner is still beyond the advance base) he would not have if the ball was unintentionally thrown out of play.

 

This who work FED know it; those who don't don't need to know it because it doesn't happen.

[beerguy55]

3 hours ago, Guest PghUmp said:

Addressing this, is there anything preventing this from “intentionally” being done? 

Consider this scenario: R1 is winning run. BR hits fly ball into deep right field. F9, seeing that R1 will score, intentionally throws ball out of play before R1 touches second base stopping R1 at third. 

It would have to be really really deep - like Ebbett's Field deep - to make it necessary - and if R1 hasn't reached second by the team F9 fields the ball he probably isn't fast enough to score before F9 gets the ball back to the infield....even if he's holding up on a fly ball he's probably sitting at second make sure it's not caught.

It would be more practical to hold the batter at third - you would need deep outfield, speedy batter and F7 with a weak arm - F7 gets ball at warning track as B/R is three or four steps from second, F7 may be better off tossing it over the fence.  (I say F7 because typically speaking, if the coach knows what he's doing, F9 has the strongest arm on the field)