The return of baseball in NJ

[LMSANS]

Here is the information for the return of travel ball (USABL) in NJ.

i can’t figure out the underlined part. How does a mask fit over your mask? And how do you take your mask off?

Hey guys, first of all. hope you are all healthy and staying safe and had a Happy Fathers Day! We know you are itching to get back on the field and many questions are coming in surrounding the NJ DOH guidelines.

We will need to do our best to try to play things extra safe especially the first week. Try your best to maintain 6 feet distance whenever possible.

We are going to try to simplify it below. It is really not too bad! We are looking forward to getting back out there.

 

Common Sense:

Most of the guidelines out there are just about common sense. You will have to adapt to the situation. No spitting, no chewing tobacco, whenever within 6 feet (I.e. ground rule)have a face covering, have hand sanitizer for yourself and use it between innings.

 

Face Coverings- when not behind the plate:

• Strongly suggested to have a face-covering available.
  • While this is not a requirement it is strongly encouraged when conditions allow.
  
  We ask especially the first week or so that all umpires try to wear their face covering whenever possible.
  We suggest wearing face-covering while in the field. However, if you feel as though it may create a health hazard and create breathing issues you are not required to wear one.
  Gaiter masks are the best they are similar to a turtle neck and you just pull it up when needed, I'm sure you've all seen them by now and many of you probably have some already.

Face Coverings - when wearing umpire mask

• We are suggesting a mask over your umpire mask, not directly on your face. You can make it fit nicely.
  This is not required, but is just a strong suggestion.

Umpire Positioning:

• 46/60 & 50/70 - 1 Umpire: "Plate" Umpire positioned behind the pitcher calling balls and strikes.
  46/60 & 50/70 - 2 Umpires: "Plate" Umpire positioned behind the pitcher calling balls and strikes
  • "Base" Umpire positioned 6 feet or so angled behind the batter, on the batter side. Wear equipment. There may be times where there may not be enough room because the backstop is too short. If that happens, improvise a bit, maybe its 3 feet back and 3 feet over.
  
  60/90 - 2 Umpires: Normal positions
  We will review this after a couple of weeks and there is a chance we could make tweaks or if things improve we could go back to normal.

Baseballs:

• We are encouraging the home/away team to have their own set of baseballs and umpires could direct them to send balls into the game when necessary. Limit umpire touching the ball as much as possible.
  Between innings, the home/away team should hold onto their own baseballs.
  Common sense, bottomline 

Please note if anyone does not feel comfortable umpiring this season or is in the category of being at-risk they should sit this season out and uncheck the ready to be assigned box on the Main page on Arbiter.

Waivers:

Anyone umpiring will be required to sign a waiver. This will be sent out separately in the next 7-10 days. Quite simply, if you don't sign a waiver you cannot umpire in the league. 

Any questions or concerns feel free to respond to this email. Things will be a little different for everyone so please have patience. The good news is we’re getting back out there. Hopefully, some of these special things we have to do now will not last long, but we’ll see. We want everyone to be safe. See you out there soon.

[Kevin_K]

If its no concern to return to baseball why do umpires have to sign a waiver?

Just sayin.....

[Mudisfun]

What make 60/90 special in regards to the umpire suddenly having to be in their normal slot position? As for the mask on the mask... I am thinking they want you to secure the breathing mask to the face mask.

For the time being, I am not going out on the fields... So Cal is seeing infection numbers raise daily and I have zero faith that teams, once they get competitive, will adhere to the protocols. The rules need to be strictly followed... and then who is responsible to ensure they are enforced?

If it is not safe for my kids to go to school, then I am less than secure in my thinking that putting kids in a dugout with coaches, whose priority once the game gets started is going to be winning, is going to end well. 

Sadly, I was hoping for zombies... this version sucks.

[aaluck]

I have worked out a deal with our assigner that I stay in the field.  I just divert $5/$10 of my pay to the other guy for doing one/both plates. I have done about 6 games so far and have not come closer than 10 feet from anyone, so I feel fairly safe. Plus most of the guys I ump with really need every dime they can earn so its a win-win.

No waivers here. Also when we use the local AA field they check everyone for temperatures at the gate--players, fans and umps. 

[BLarson]

In Nebraska for travel ball, it's basically normal except umpires are instructed not to handle baseballs, bats, catcher masks, etc...and to stay out of the dugouts.
For travel ball, the umpires are in their normal positions for 1 or 2 man.   For Rec ball, some if not all leagues are having the umpire behind the pitcher.

In Omaha, the 2 umpire organizations I'm familiar with, 1 required a waiver and the other one did not.

The kids and their equipment can be spread out utilizing the dugout, stands, or extended dugout down the baseline.

[umpstu]

7 hours ago, aaluck said:

I have worked out a deal with our assigner that I stay in the field.  I just divert $5/$10 of my pay to the other guy for doing one/both plates. I have done about 6 games so far and have not come closer than 10 feet from anyone, so I feel fairly safe. Plus most of the guys I ump with really need every dime they can earn so its a win-win.

No waivers here. Also when we use the local AA field they check everyone for temperatures at the gate--players, fans and umps. 

Are you wearing a mask?

[aaluck]

13 hours ago, umpstu said:

Are you wearing a mask?

I am not. I figure if I'm at least 10 feet from anyone, outside, its unnecessary.

I do still wear my mask indoors shopping, like Home Depot or anywhere else.

[Aging_Arbiter]

a face covering mask (N95, etc) does not do it's job if not worn properly.  Therefore, wearing it on the outside of the mask is useless.

[aaluck]

49 minutes ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

a face covering mask (N95, etc) does not do it's job if not worn properly.  Therefore, wearing it on the outside of the mask is useless.

That's absolutely true and I was thinking the exact same thing. Obviously their "safety" rules are merely for show--which is what I see locally as well.

[JaxRolo]

[JaxRolo]

2 hours ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

a face covering mask (N95, etc) does not do it's job if not worn properly.  Therefore, wearing it on the outside of the mask is useless.

Unfortunately it's not all about safety but its just to comply with policies..

When a tournament only makes umpires wear a mask it doesn't make sense...

See the pic I posted..

[aaluck]

37 minutes ago, JaxRolo said:

Unfortunately it's not all about safety but its just to comply with policies..

When a tournament only makes umpires wear a mask it doesn't make sense...

See the pic I posted..

That's ridiculous. But I can do you one better.  My son did a perfect game tournament last week/weekend and they told him his bucket was good enough for his "mask".

He's only 20 and even he asked if they were serious...they said yes.

[beerguy55]

Wearing the covid mask over the umpire mask means you are now (potentially) infecting the umpire mask, and then your hands when you touch it (not to mention it doesn't really contain anything coming out of your nose or mouth)...every time you take your mask off and put it back on you would then need to sanitize your hands before touching the ball.    In short, you may as well not wear it at all.

 

Wearing c-mask under u-mask would reduce (not eliminate) that risk significantly.

[MadMax]

6 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Wearing the covid mask over the umpire mask means you are now (potentially) infecting the umpire mask, and then your hands when you touch it (not to mention it doesn't really contain anything coming out of your nose or mouth)...every time you take your mask off and put it back on you would then need to sanitize your hands before touching the ball.    In short, you may as well not wear it at all.

Still waitin’ on you, or anybody else, to prove that the virus is on a baseball.

Existence ≠ presence ≠ exposure ≠ contraction ≠ infection ≠ hospitalization ≠ death

@JaxRolo has satisfied the definition of a mask, has he not? Who are you to say otherwise?

[MadMax]

On 6/22/2020 at 9:34 PM, Kevin_K said:

If its no concern to return to baseball why do umpires have to sign a waiver?

Just sayin.....

Because a viral infection, I have a fightin’ chance of surviving...

... I won’t survive a/the lawsuit that will surely be attached to it.

[beerguy55]

17 hours ago, MadMax said:

Still waitin’ on you, or anybody else, to prove that the virus is on a baseball.

Existence ≠ presence ≠ exposure ≠ contraction ≠ infection ≠ hospitalization ≠ death

@JaxRolo has satisfied the definition of a mask, has he not? Who are you to say otherwise?

If you want to wait until someone actually does a study how long this particular coronavirus stays on leather, or an actual baseball, you can go ahead.  To my knowledge no study has been done on fabric.  We know it can stick around on hard surfaces for a few days, and even a surface like cardboard for 24 hours, which probably tells us with reasonable certainty what it does on cowhide.  We know this virus, and most viruses like it, can be, and has been, transferred between objects (why do you think we're constantly washing our hands).  I don't need to wait for the official Harvard/CDC study on sports equipment to take the same precautions about handling a baseball as I would handling any object shared between multiple people.

How many people need to die in your country before you stop thinking I'm a crackpot?

[Vegas_Ump]

Folks, it's either safe to play baseball or it isn't!  

Beerguy, I'm not going to call you a crackpot.  But your post reinforces my point!  if you have to wipe down baseballs and bats, disinfect the dugout, sift the dirt around home plate, and force the umpires to wear a facemask just because you are afraid of COVID-19, then it ain't safe to play, and you need to stay home.

We are hammering ants with a sledge hammer here!  What we really need is the governor to tell us WHY we have to jump through these hoops!  Heretofore, they just said "Do it, or else!"  Sorry, I do not buy that.  Objectively, if there is a good reason not to play baseball, fine!  I will accept that!  But don't keep us in the dark!  This has been my pet peeve since day 1!  Jumping through hoops does not speak well for the game.  Note that all Pro, NCAA, and most amateur sports programs are still on hiatus.  Maybe somebody knows something!  (Why don't we?)

Communicate!  Inform!  Just don't pronounce!  What you are talking about here ain't baseball.

JMO

Mike

Las Vegas

[JonnyCat]

2 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

If you want to wait until someone actually does a study how long this particular coronavirus stays on leather, or an actual baseball, you can go ahead.  To my knowledge to study has been done on fabric.  We know it can stick around on hard surfaces for a few days, and even a surface like cardboard for 24 hours, which probably tells us with reasonable certainty what it does on cowhide.  We know this virus, and most viruses like it, can be, and has been, transferred between objects (why do you think we're constantly washing our hands).  I don't need to wait for the official Harvard/CDC study on sports equipment to take the same precautions about handling a baseball as I would handling any object shared between multiple people.

How many people need to die in your country before you stop thinking I'm a crackpot?

We just think you're a crackpot anyway! 

[beerguy55]

3 hours ago, Vegas_Ump said:

Folks, it's either safe to play baseball or it isn't!  

Beerguy, I'm not going to call you a crackpot.  But your post reinforces my point!  if you have to wipe down baseballs and bats, disinfect the dugout, sift the dirt around home plate, and force the umpires to wear a facemask just because you are afraid of COVID-19, then it ain't safe to play, and you need to stay home.

We are hammering ants with a sledge hammer here!  What we really need is the governor to tell us WHY we have to jump through these hoops!  Heretofore, they just said "Do it, or else!"  Sorry, I do not buy that.  Objectively, if there is a good reason not to play baseball, fine!  I will accept that!  But don't keep us in the dark!  This has been my pet peeve since day 1!  Jumping through hoops does not speak well for the game.  Note that all Pro, NCAA, and most amateur sports programs are still on hiatus.  Maybe somebody knows something!  (Why don't we?)

Communicate!  Inform!  Just don't pronounce!  What you are talking about here ain't baseball.

JMO

Mike

Las Vegas

I'm not opposed to the game, but I think there is a lackadaisical attitude in some - I think you can do it safely, and then there are things that can reduce risks (not eliminate) and things you can do to increase risks.

Even MLB baseball's rules entail getting your own glove now, returning your own helmet, disposing of bats touched by more than two people, and other measures.   Golf courses have "don't touch the pin" rules and no rakes in the bunkers.  And PGA and MLB training facilities are still seeing cases happening.

So, yes, IF you have the virus, you have a much higher likelihood of shedding that virus on the umpire mask if you A)don't wear a covid mask or B) wear it on the outside of the umpire mask.  Which then increases the chances of transferring the virus to your hands everytime you remove the umpire mask...and then transferring it to any other object you touch if you don't sanitize first.  That's common sense.  And no, I'm not interested in waiting for a study on baseballs to see how long the virus survives on cowhide - I know it survives on metal, wood, plastic, cardboard, etc, etc.  I know outbreaks have occurred simply due to sharing a serving spoon or a bottle of mustard at an outdoor barbecue.   That's not to say outdoor barbecue's aren't safe...they can be (relatively) if you stay on top of things, and, trust others to do the same.  Baseball is the same...and frankly, so is shopping, going on a bus, a plane, the playground.  None of them are 100% safe...they are carrying a risk...but you can minimize the risk in each and everyone of those areas with a few simple steps.   And you have to trust others to do so.  And some areas, maybe the minimal achievable risk isn't something you're comfortable with.  I golfed this morning.  I'm camping this weekend (in a trailer).  I'm hosting an outdoor bbq on Sunday (bring your own drinks, chairs and condiments).   But you wont' see me on a plane or in a movie theater any time soon.

I'd rather not see baseball played, especially at the amateur level, because it has become apparent in our two countries that too many people just don't give a SH*# to follow a few inconvenient guidelines.  The countries that are succeeding in minimizing the outbreak, and still getting back to work, back to school, back to normal, even opening amusement parks and going on crowded subways, are succeeding because of their culture, not their genetics, not their wealth, not blind luck, not the weather, not even their laws.

 

[beerguy55]

4 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

We just think you're a crackpot anyway! 

[taa71458]

getting married in less than 3 months. The $1000 I'd make on a limited amount of games isn't worth the risk. sitting out the season.

[dumbdumb]

On 6/25/2020 at 2:55 PM, beerguy55 said:

I'm not opposed to the game, but I think there is a lackadaisical attitude in some - I think you can do it safely, and then there are things that can reduce risks (not eliminate) and things you can do to increase risks.

Even MLB baseball's rules entail getting your own glove now, returning your own helmet, disposing of bats touched by more than two people, and other measures.   Golf courses have "don't touch the pin" rules and no rakes in the bunkers.  And PGA and MLB training facilities are still seeing cases happening.

So, yes, IF you have the virus, you have a much higher likelihood of shedding that virus on the umpire mask if you A)don't wear a covid mask or B) wear it on the outside of the umpire mask.  Which then increases the chances of transferring the virus to your hands everytime you remove the umpire mask...and then transferring it to any other object you touch if you don't sanitize first.  That's common sense.  And no, I'm not interested in waiting for a study on baseballs to see how long the virus survives on cowhide - I know it survives on metal, wood, plastic, cardboard, etc, etc.  I know outbreaks have occurred simply due to sharing a serving spoon or a bottle of mustard at an outdoor barbecue.   That's not to say outdoor barbecue's aren't safe...they can be (relatively) if you stay on top of things, and, trust others to do the same.  Baseball is the same...and frankly, so is shopping, going on a bus, a plane, the playground.  None of them are 100% safe...they are carrying a risk...but you can minimize the risk in each and everyone of those areas with a few simple steps.   And you have to trust others to do so.  And some areas, maybe the minimal achievable risk isn't something you're comfortable with.  I golfed this morning.  I'm camping this weekend (in a trailer).  I'm hosting an outdoor bbq on Sunday (bring your own drinks, chairs and condiments).   But you wont' see me on a plane or in a movie theater any time soon.

I'd rather not see baseball played, especially at the amateur level, because it has become apparent in our two countries that too many people just don't give a SH*# to follow a few inconvenient guidelines.  The countries that are succeeding in minimizing the outbreak, and still getting back to work, back to school, back to normal, even opening amusement parks and going on crowded subways, are succeeding because of their culture, not their genetics, not their wealth, not blind luck, not the weather, not even their laws.

 

All of us should be getting this type of covid care/access/prevention everywhere/everyday, not just these guys, as in the new regulations summary you might want to peruse, if you haven't already.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/24/summary-of-major-league-baseball-2020-operations-m/

And?? Do umpires get a special dispensation/well thought out risk category protection plan, called a high risk category with the same rights and benefits of that category as players. If not, why not?

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1979308

Added 6/29-- do umpires get same deal /consideration under circumstances. Anf if not, why not.

 

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiENGrIM3ySx8VU_fhrBzhnZAqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowyNj6CjDyiPICML_fxAU?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

[dumbdumb]

Umpire article on recent Colt league game.

https://www.ellwoodcityledger.com/sports/20200627/players-umpires-adjust-to-calling-balls-and-strikes-from-behind-pitcherrsquos-mound

[beerguy55]

On 6/25/2020 at 9:35 AM, Vegas_Ump said:

Folks, it's either safe to play baseball or it isn't!  

Beerguy, I'm not going to call you a crackpot.  But your post reinforces my point!  if you have to wipe down baseballs and bats, disinfect the dugout, sift the dirt around home plate, and force the umpires to wear a facemask just because you are afraid of COVID-19, then it ain't safe to play, and you need to stay home.

I've been thinking about this for a few days, and the best I can come up with is some analogies - I hope they work, and make the point.

Driving isn't inherently safe.  But we all do it.  Over the years many rules have been passed to make it safer.  The steps we have to take to get a license, and keep it, are far different than they were 100 years ago...50 years ago...even 20 years ago.  And we don't really think about it much...though it certainly was an adjustment for those people going through the changes.

And when we are in a vehicle we trust that the others are going to take the same cautions you are...and hope those who don't are stopped before they kill someone.   And if someone runs a red light so they can get to the mall 45 seconds earlier we give them a $100 ticket for their blatant disregard for human life...and most of the time that's enough to keep people in check.  So whether it's speed limits, road tests, age restrictions, traffic signals, signs, dotted and solid lines, manufacturing safety standards, etc - these are items that were modified and evolved, and learned, over time to greatly reduce the danger of operating motor vehicles - and today we can drive these large machines at 40 mph in opposite directions, three feet apart as they pass each other, and trust the other isn't going to suddenly swerve into you. (a big reason why auto-drive cars aren't already here en masse - that trust hasn't yet been established, or earned)

Even something like wearing a seat belt isn't as much a personal decision as people think - sure, you're taking your own risk (provided you're not in the car with three other people and become a projectile that kills everyone else in the car)...but even if you're driving alone, your personal decision to take a "personal" risk affects others - whether it's the family you leave behind, the first responders who have to clean up the mess, or the 8 year old boy who happened to witness your accident and is now in therapy for the rest of his life...so 49 states have seat belt laws too  (it's not lost on me that the only state without a seat belt law has the motto "Live Free or Die").  It's a little different in Canada where with universal health care your personal decision to not wear a seat belt actually costs me money as a tax payer.  At the same time, though you can debate whether or not there should be a law until the cows come home...very few people actually argue anymore against the effectiveness of seat belts (and those who do are quickly and easily dismissed)...but when first introduced, the argument to this "change" was that seat belts don't work, they're uncomfortable and inconvenient, they don't save any lives, and they might actually be dangerous.....sound familiar?

You could also talk about sex the same way - the only way to avoid a STD or pregnancy with 100% certainty is abstinence.  Since that is not always practical (ie. locking down an economy) those who engage in casual sex make decisions to reduce (not eliminate) the risks of those two outcomes.  And there is a social contract with your partner in doing so.  And this has changed over the decades.

Construction workers need to wear PPE on site - constructions sites ARE dangerous.  If you want to work on one there are rules to follow.  It's not a matter of saying "well, if it's not safe don't go to work"...if you want to work, these are the rules you need to follow.  Today, a single death is unacceptable on any construction site.  When the Golden Gate Bridge was built, the number of deaths was actually "budgeted" into the construction plan...and they came in under budget..."only" eleven people died, and that was considered a modern miracle.  Things change.

This can be applied everywhere - it's not about black or white, yes or no, it is or it isn't.  It's about what you want to do, and what you need to do to achieve it.

We are going to have to take the same approach with COVID-19.  At least until there's a vaccine, or we know a lot more than we know now.  There are steps we can take that will let us achieve MOST of what we were doing before.  The steps protect us...and in many cases they protect others.  I'll protect you from me, you protect me from you.  Reduce the risk as much as we can.  

The thing I find most ridiculous is the same people who are screaming to open the economy and get back to work, and get back to school, are the same people who are screaming about the very guidelines that will make those things possible...."You can't tell me what to do"...Well, if you want A, you need to do B.   

It's time to accept that normal is gone.  There is a new normal.   And it's going to mean that some things are going to seem weird, and there are going to be changes in our routines.  And if we can't voluntarily be adults and figure out the precautions we need to take, and take them, we will be forced to do so - and we'll get "improperly wearing mask" tickets right alongside our "failure to make a complete stop" tickets.   I really don't want that.    

[Aging_Arbiter]

If "normal is gone", then accept your demise and begin planning for the end.  Exposure to the elements is what strengthens and maintains your immune system.  I will leave that as it is, and not impose my political views of "trail socialism" on anyone here.

Have a wonderful day............for now