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Guest MJ Softball

Fair or Foul Rule - which takes precedence

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Guest MJ Softball

The 2019 NSA Rule Book states (Section 20 C) that a fair ball is c) First falls in fair territory beyond 1st or 3rd base, but the Rule Book (Section 23 A) also states that a foul ball is a) settles on or is first touched in foul territory between home plant and 1st base or home plate and 3rd base.   So here is the play that causes the question.  Pop fly beyond first base, the first base completely misses it (does not touch it).  The ball hits beyond first base in fair territory (so by definition in Section 20 C it is a fair ball).  HOWEVER, the ball hits the ground and spins on the ground without being touched and while in fair territory comes back in front of first base then rolls foul between home and first base. (so by definition Section 23 A this a foul ball).  So which is it, fair ball or foul ball?

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Fair ball.

 

A batted ball is neither fair nor foul until something else happens.  Once that happens, the status is set.

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3 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Fair ball.

 

A batted ball is neither fir nor foul until something else happens.  Once that happens, the status is set.

Yup, the instant the ball touched fair territory beyond first base, it became fair. 

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1 hour ago, grayhawk said:

Yup, the instant the ball touched fair territory beyond first base, it became fair.

Other than the pitcher's plate, in baseball.  And yes, I have personally seen it, twice, ricochet into foul territory. 

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29 minutes ago, aaluck said:

Other than the pitcher's plate, in baseball.  And yes, I have personally seen it, twice, ricochet into foul territory. 

1) The pitcher's plate is not beyond a line from first to third on a 90' field.  IT is, I think, in LL.  IDK and IDC on 70' or 80' diamonds.

2) Only FED uses that line from first to third to determine "beyond" in this rule.  In OBR, it means "outside the infield as defined" (for practical purposes and ignoring the specific vagaries of the placement of the bases on the corners of that square.).

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just to bump this and add

 

the lines are fair  so if it touches chalk/paint its fair        Yes?

 

same as the plate is in fair territory if it settles on the plate its fair.

 

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4 hours ago, Guest MJ Softball said:

The 2019 NSA Rule Book states (Section 20 C) that a fair ball is c) First falls in fair territory beyond 1st or 3rd base, but the Rule Book (Section 23 A) also states that a foul ball is a) settles on or is first touched in foul territory between home plant and 1st base or home plate and 3rd base.   So here is the play that causes the question.  Pop fly beyond first base, the first base completely misses it (does not touch it).  The ball hits beyond first base in fair territory (so by definition in Section 20 C it is a fair ball).  HOWEVER, the ball hits the ground and spins on the ground without being touched and while in fair territory comes back in front of first base then rolls foul between home and first base. (so by definition Section 23 A this a foul ball).  So which is it, fair ball or foul ball?

Did you not answer your own question?

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1 hour ago, ArchAngel72 said:

just to bump this and add

 

the lines are fair  so if it touches chalk/paint its fair        Yes?

 

same as the plate is in fair territory if it settles on the plate its fair.

 

The key word per a recent OBR/MLBUM interp is "touches"

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1 hour ago, ArchAngel72 said:

the lines are fair  so if it touches chalk/paint its fair        Yes?

 

Beyond 1st/3rd, yes...inside 1st/3rd it's nothing yet.

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4 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

just to bump this and add

 

the lines are fair  so if it touches chalk/paint its fair        Yes?

 

same as the plate is in fair territory if it settles on the plate its fair.

 


One of the dumbest things I ever said to a coach: “Coach, I had it fair.  It hit the line on the foul side.”  :fuel:
 

Yell John Carpenter GIF by 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment

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